From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MIME_HTML_ONLY,MIME_HTML_ONLY_MULTI,MPART_ALT_DIFF,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob1.topicbox.com (tb-ob1.topicbox.com [64.147.108.173]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682F72469F for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 22:18:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (tb-mx1.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.61]) by tb-ob1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1914F35715 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:18:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bounce.mM366d2e142b1dd50f011dfb7d.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 16C1CA56903; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:18:00 -0500 (EST) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=iyU49q0f header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=don.bailey@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-yb1-f171.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (body has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=content-type:content-transfer-encoding:from :mime-version:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to :list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1706217479; bh=++GVZ7+ULGrXEOce VhzaEgwypmGqVOdJCxZ3zI/59+o=; b=tTDxSyDbRHmsA8Jb39ZOAwGgUkdTeLBW 9T/BuB3ijnesCh7fO9YDKh53Ihz1OfcyGuBU1FPj54jMTjoFs1ahdWoT9mQ6dSmE rEiimjXd3XAHhfVbzKVGplS1gMB69+e88MfHdnvpw2k1BVbAO9eSLBodqh5kWwzs 9Yaob04fhP0= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1706217479; b=NbO9ChAJNVy3JlTNmlB33zpLOTOjBX14wDfPEXxQ58tpuWkJO1 k8UF/e7JuepjlYMPHu6dxyrSvFifc5drfyjY2fXWvIpme/QsCpFyxeR24LmbyVrn 4cOTuJ1tUGxHQoqTsW7dEm/ZJJqbss4Pvrp/ErlPxKsGRqHZDW+XLnp3c= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=iyU49q0f header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=don.bailey@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-yb1-f171.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (body has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=iyU49q0f header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.219.171 (mail-yb1-f171.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=don.bailey@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-yb1-f171.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=ISWILQmz; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-yb1-f171.google.com policy.ptr=mail-yb1-f171.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=51 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h= content-type:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject :date:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t=1706217479; x=1706303879; bh=1GNebQlCDJQkXz6N5A5R6YC2OjAVNJkF tYkNHhsnRvg=; b=RIDMc42G4r+MTqY7dN7nvaI39DSwlTMbeK4LKz+ps5Bxcg7T QSFTpVMkQz+6HAzHo/oxmoN/lP8DZoE9E4IDZSGqmbtfN+tHfkjSjwLhoKK9ZpHX dUq0meWldltNCWU47naTm4H3IG+thpuuFsM62lL+16JmVc0l5YQy9stJH+U= Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825EFA56347 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:17:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from don.bailey@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 6FBC72BF334; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:17:48 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1706217468; b=dz7e4fV+7AYZCtxckVrheyVEIJlJ8IwZZqcafhnYEmaUG8hJJ/ Q7cHaRvyn6l/8WsleeVxLde5dbUKfi6EoxAC5hBwiMGcdH9tHJLGqcgfSkbaY0Am aM95byR4IeqsWKKnwj9AsYh4I2+Bweh53vSse/K6CCBC7fO5RI2/OXG13LVIifXA NRG343Ons29KoZwzSgSRCOwDUw2+NaMQNCKrt6myYRYidQosrvlTuwlliRGZvObb j8Ql0W2N48LWiLCqCzlEEhEBXPK4jNjJC0LacCUoahSUqk3h4UF3lziyYxB20Zx7 qBrT21j6J/nr+AQWwn8z2d7v1KxAJ8VOE8Yw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=content-type:content-transfer-encoding:from :mime-version:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to; s=arcseal; t=1706217468; bh=YrTySe5XqJhEIQmLVow84xNmQxeAmyxhtbF QAyntceo=; b=uef4+JE2r9IkpV5tPqnguq4793eZg8TbsKMmpWzo9/l3K7Ho0Om kr4t4eGoaj4SMXpOeeExa0DrIFeB04ltEpuTueFF54FPziGrcrXhhLmo4tKgpjh8 onUp5ALf2FDs/sJVKJ0PQSOblGVwrA9kjyWogSCj4Bb4rYeckCAqkR9M7GojSTPI GRPUeANxYsCLYpgpmaCp/3n7fM2kO/MJ6q94xMts+AQbqJjfFX56uzfD5O8qfEB/ 1prh5sdDzFIHUD/EkcFuRDkeedLkJ2H1Qq6OapfucDctucRlz1Qe74+6QwHJaSWs 1AvuwW30LbOxxzlYqzxSIydQOjhC+2FNPSw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=iyU49q0f header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.219.171 (mail-yb1-f171.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=don.bailey@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-yb1-f171.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=ISWILQmz; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-yb1-f171.google.com policy.ptr=mail-yb1-f171.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=51 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrvdelhedgheegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucfqnhhlhicuohhnvgcuph grrhhtucdlhedumdenucfjughrpegtgffhggfufffkfhgjvffosegrjehmrehhtdejnecu hfhrohhmpedfffhonhcutedruceurghilhgvhidfuceoughonhdrsggrihhlvgihsehgmh grihhlrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeetgeduvdekveefvdfhjefgleektedu hfehudejveelvdfgheelffehudeuudffheenucffohhmrghinhepthhophhitggsohigrd gtohhmnecukfhppedvtdelrdekhedrvdduledrudejuddpvdeitddtmeefkedvmeeguddu megrudgskeemtgdtrggrmegrgeekvgemugdusgehmeehlegrtdenucevlhhushhtvghruf hiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpedvtdelrdekhedrvdduledrudejuddphhgv lhhopehmrghilhdqhigsuddqfhdujedurdhgohhoghhlvgdrtghomhdpmhgrihhlfhhroh hmpeeoughonhdrsggrihhlvgihsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqe X-ME-VSScore: 51 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'don.bailey@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="don.bailey@gmail.com"; helo=mail-yb1-f171.google.com; client-ip=209.85.219.171 Received: from mail-yb1-f171.google.com (mail-yb1-f171.google.com [209.85.219.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:17:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from don.bailey@gmail.com) Received: by mail-yb1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-dc238cb1b17so122087276.0 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:17:48 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706217467; x=1706822267; h=to:in-reply-to:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version:from :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YrTySe5XqJhEIQmLVow84xNmQxeAmyxhtbFQAyntceo=; b=ISWILQmzbIMKLYD1yo3KVSkYwCVqkElklsQ+S8QOjxBSWddlrme5UnqMe/C/nAkFOJ XFtUR6m4L+8ugmR5uCpFsr7Cigk3rDd0SiX24y4hE3RM3h48R+4x76W2Th1DSF3bkIop TUD7TgBVvq1ZSlnrZJruBZrVoiknDLpFAzuDH9nIOvyT4kdEcBj99Ih7ib2GQcxmsa3Q Hw426hAHMVt54jfnWonD/O3cLY/hdtry4lPJPEICp7wkhQ0HH05gPSO+SdPEoCON4HFN iZRYwu4Hg0qPO/v2VUxdT+OGOnApfeYR1mKrQ8UDg9PYA0zQN8huItLfTAtViX6CT3Cf A9LA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzBKrnsUw+jBJ0RHcuj+liAJJXhVrxvyFPlAjQUzaYcFZne9ESC DLBiJQ2TQfZbS899j4icSpSYX9qUG6NbAiZLuYuAOqViLwRlx6uA78guy1vN X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFY+e5hpccFWMgbKtT1QjcrJGZObFvK71iMgtk/g5Ldb24AvysGtII3jfCNEK4hJfDUzUYtCg== X-Received: by 2002:a25:2b08:0:b0:dc2:40b7:7d18 with SMTP id r8-20020a252b08000000b00dc240b77d18mr422555ybr.105.1706217467404; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:382:411:a1b8:c0aa:a48e:d1b5:59a0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m187-20020a2526c4000000b00dc2324b3cddsm3719673ybm.37.2024.01.25.13.17.46 for <9fans@9fans.net> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:17:47 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-44B4467E-DC88-48D4-B875-404219B75114 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Don A. Bailey" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Charting the Future: Envisioning Plan 9 Release 5 for the 9fans Community. [Was:Re: [9fans] Supported Notebooks] Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:17:35 -0500 Message-Id: References: In-Reply-To: To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (21C66) Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 33a8340e-bbc7-11ee-a042-9609a098f952 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UNDJmMTFlMDI2NWJjZmExOC1NMzY2ZDJlMTQyYjFkZDUwZjAxMWRm?= =?UTF-8?B?YjdkPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M366d2e142b1dd50f011dfb7d:1:uTPOeUia7y9wNQQa4kD-PW7r-ZvHDbUqLtBIRxWhUz0 --Apple-Mail-44B4467E-DC88-48D4-B875-404219B75114 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yeah but we don’t necessarily need patches from 9front= . The ones of good quality are really already being pulled in. Cinap does a= lot of solid work. 

My only issue is seeing the two maintain a strong delineation, which I ob= viously prefer.



On Jan 25, 2024, at 4:= 04 PM, Eli Cohen <echoline@gmail.com> wrote:


we've had discussions like this before. I do agree that having a= more "original" Plan 9 option like 9legacy is a good idea. in te= rms of what that actually means doing, a lot of the obvious effort wou= ld be to go into turning stuff from 9front into patches for 9legacy. I star= ted to do this to make a patch for dp9ik for 9legacy and I quickly realized= how much effort that actually would take


Don, you have been gate keeping this wh= ole thread. I see noone agreeing with you either.  We could all be a l= ittle kinder to one another, especially since we all have love for Plan 9.&= nbsp;


— thed&= aelig;mon 🫠


On Thu, Ja= n 25, 2024 at 11:31 AM, Don Bailey <don.bailey@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool gaslighting. 


On Thu,= Jan 25, 2024 at 12:25 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org>= ; wrote:
On Ja= n 25, 2024, at 8:44 AM, Don Bailey <don.bailey@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it. <= br /> >
> If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 alto= gether. Both as a user and a developer.
>
> I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have a= ny interest in the mess of whatever 9front is supposed to be.

9front is eminently usable. May be you are rejecting it for the wrong reaso= ns?


------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-Mb71d859edbb= 24de170bf2c71
Delivery options: https://9fans.topic= box.com/groups/9fans/subscription
=
= --Apple-Mail-44B4467E-DC88-48D4-B875-404219B75114--