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Sun, 12 May 2024 13:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@9fans.net Subject: Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ? Date: Sun, 12 May 2024 16:10:48 -0400 From: ori@eigenstate.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: becf1538-109b-11ef-aed2-de7c0677bcb0 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UNTYzOTdlZmY2MjY5YWYyNy1NMzk2ZmE0ZjgzYzE3NzBkZjliMThj?= =?UTF-8?B?NmYxPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M396fa4f83c1770df9b18c6f1:1:bxAOq6FMi29r1pPVWMd3R-S-zyeMl9tyhWy_QAn1dzU Quoth ori@eigenstate.org: > Quoth Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com>: > > I'm using a new subject [was: Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front] > > in the hope of continuing discussion of the vulnerability of p9sk1 with= out > > too many other distractions. > >=20 > > moody@posixcafe.org said: > > > If we agree that: > > >=20 > > > 1) p9sk1 allows the shared secret to be brute-forced offline. > > > 2) The average consumer machine is fast enough to make a large amount= of attempts in a short time, > > > in other words triple DES is not computationally hard to brute for= ce these days. > > >=20 > > > I don't know how you don't see how this is trivial to do. > >=20 > > I agree that 1) is true, but I don't think it's serious. The shared sec= ret is > > only valid for the current session, so by the time it's brute forced, i= t may > > be too late to use. I think the bad vulnerability is that the ticket re= quest > > and response can be used offline to brute force the (more permanent) DE= S keys > > of the client and server. Provided, of course, that the random teenager= somehow > > is able to listen in on the conversation between my p9sk1 clients and s= ervers. > >=20 > > On the other hand, it's hard to know whether to agree or disagree with = 2), > > without knowing exactly what is meant by "large amount", "short time", > > "computationally hard", and "trivial". > >=20 > > When Jacob told me at IWP9 in Waterloo that p9sk1 had been broken, not > > just theoretically but in practice, I was looking forward to seeing pub= lication > > of the details. Ori's recent claim in 9fans seemed more specific: > >=20 >=20 > The intial exchange sends across the challenges: >=20 > C=E2=86=92S: CHc > S=E2=86=92C: AuthTreq, IDs, DN, CHs, -, - >=20 Oops -- wrong messages; these are the ones you want to be breaking: C=E2=86=92A: AuthTreq, IDs, DN, CHs, IDc, IDr A=E2=86=92C: AuthOK, Kc{AuthTc, CHs, IDc, IDr, Kn}, Ks{AuthTs, CHs, IDc, IDr, Kn} Thanks to cinap for pointing that out. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T56397eff6269af27-M396fa= 4f83c1770df9b18c6f1 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription