[9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[devrin talen]

I've been interested in Plan 9 for a little while now and finally got
around to setting up a virtual plan 9 installation via qemu. As
someone completely new to the operating system I've been reading the
man pages, getting familiar with sam and acme, randomly clicking
around, etc. What would you suggest for some next (baby) steps?

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Pietro Gagliardi]

First off, finish learning to use rc, rio, and acme. You'll need both
of them :-)

If you are using QEMU, I am assuming you already use another OS.
Therefore, just a bit of translation: in your OS, you say "Copy." In
Plan 9, you say "Snarf."

Next, to turn off Plan 9, issue the
	fshalt
command. When it is done, turn off your computer - Plan 9 doesn't
(yet) turn off itself. The -r option to fshalt reboots the system.

Next, log in as user glenda or boot the Live CD and read the rio and
acme tutorials from that location.

Next, read the wiki (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9) for more
familiarization.

Next, go to http://www.troff.org/ to learn how to use troff, the word
processor. troff.org is a (dead?) community-based website.

Finally, check back here if you have any questions.

On Feb 19, 2008, at 5:58 PM, devrin talen wrote:

> I've been interested in Plan 9 for a little while now and finally got
> around to setting up a virtual plan 9 installation via qemu. As
> someone completely new to the operating system I've been reading the
> man pages, getting familiar with sam and acme, randomly clicking
> around, etc. What would you suggest for some next (baby) steps?

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Martin Neubauer]

* Pietro Gagliardi (pietro10@mac.com) wrote:
> First off, finish learning to use rc, rio, and acme. You'll need both
> of them :-)

For large values of two, two equals three, for small values of three.

Seriously, it's probobly easiest to understand how Plan 9 works and why it
is the way it is by reading what you find in /sys/doc. Start with 9.ps and
work yourself through the rest. A few things aren't really necessary to
get started, but reading the titles and abstracts helps to sort things. The
wiki is nice and contains quite a few descriptions of getting things done
but provides little reasoning about design (notable exceptions are the
pages on the colour scheme and the mouse vs. keyboard debate - there's
really no need to carry this one back to the list.)

Oh, and the man pages are great for reference.

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Federico G. Benavento]

hola,

people tend to forget, but Plan 9 does has a wiki, with answers
to most of the questions these groundhog (credit: maht) day posts.

read it via acme, or:
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Recommended_readings/

have fun and welcome to Plan 9!

On Feb 19, 2008 9:00 PM, Martin Neubauer <m.ne@gmx.net> wrote:
> * Pietro Gagliardi (pietro10@mac.com) wrote:
> > First off, finish learning to use rc, rio, and acme. You'll need both
> > of them :-)
>
> For large values of two, two equals three, for small values of three.
>
> Seriously, it's probobly easiest to understand how Plan 9 works and why it
> is the way it is by reading what you find in /sys/doc. Start with 9.ps and
> work yourself through the rest. A few things aren't really necessary to
> get started, but reading the titles and abstracts helps to sort things. The
> wiki is nice and contains quite a few descriptions of getting things done
> but provides little reasoning about design (notable exceptions are the
> pages on the colour scheme and the mouse vs. keyboard debate - there's
> really no need to carry this one back to the list.)
>
> Oh, and the man pages are great for reference.
>
>



--
Federico G. Benavento

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[john]

> hola,
>
> people tend to forget, but Plan 9 does has a wiki, with answers
> to most of the questions these groundhog (credit: maht) day posts.
>
> read it via acme, or:
> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Recommended_readings/
>
> have fun and welcome to Plan 9!
>
<snip>

Maybe somebody should set up a script that looks for emails with
subjects similar to "new to Plan 9", "Plan 9 newbie", etc. and
sends a message with links to the wiki.
I'm only half joking.

John

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Iruata Souza]

On Feb 19, 2008 9:50 PM,  <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
> Maybe somebody should set up a script that looks for emails with
> subjects similar to "new to Plan 9", "Plan 9 newbie", etc. and
> sends a message with links to the wiki.
> I'm only half joking.
>
> John
>
>

first that.

iru

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[lucio]

> On Feb 19, 2008 9:50 PM,  <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
>> Maybe somebody should set up a script that looks for emails with
>> subjects similar to "new to Plan 9", "Plan 9 newbie", etc. and
>> sends a message with links to the wiki.
>> I'm only half joking.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>
> first that.
>
> iru

We used to have FAQs in the good old days.  The Plan 9 one has been
deceased a while, maybe we should distil the wiki knowledge into it
for a shorter, more static document?  I'm not volunteering, but if
others think it's worthwhile I'll certainly be willing to assist.

++L

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente]

Perhaps there could be an "autoanswer" mail account...
newbie@plan9.net or something... :P

On Feb 20, 2008 4:44 AM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 19, 2008 9:50 PM,  <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
> >> Maybe somebody should set up a script that looks for emails with
> >> subjects similar to "new to Plan 9", "Plan 9 newbie", etc. and
> >> sends a message with links to the wiki.
> >> I'm only half joking.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >
> > first that.
> >
> > iru
>
> We used to have FAQs in the good old days.  The Plan 9 one has been
> deceased a while, maybe we should distil the wiki knowledge into it
> for a shorter, more static document?  I'm not volunteering, but if
> others think it's worthwhile I'll certainly be willing to assist.
>
> ++L
>
>

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Pietro Gagliardi]

Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan
9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"
typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.

On Feb 19, 2008, at 11:56 PM, Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente
wrote:

> Perhaps there could be an "autoanswer" mail account...
> newbie@plan9.net or something... :P
>
> On Feb 20, 2008 4:44 AM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 19, 2008 9:50 PM,  <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
>>>> Maybe somebody should set up a script that looks for emails with
>>>> subjects similar to "new to Plan 9", "Plan 9 newbie", etc. and
>>>> sends a message with links to the wiki.
>>>> I'm only half joking.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> first that.
>>>
>>> iru
>>
>> We used to have FAQs in the good old days.  The Plan 9 one has been
>> deceased a while, maybe we should distil the wiki knowledge into it
>> for a shorter, more static document?  I'm not volunteering, but if
>> others think it's worthwhile I'll certainly be willing to assist.
>>
>> ++L
>>
>>

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[andrey mirtchovski]

On Feb 19, 2008 10:10 PM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan
> 9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"
> typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.
>

Oh, that one's easy: the single page in that textbook will have the
following text on it:

"This page intentionally left blank."

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente]

It is a good idea indeed...

First: A wiki page "Are you a newbie?"
Second: A nice "Welcome newbie... Do this and that"
Third: State the obvios: "Newbie... You have to read... We won't read for you"

And some other indications...

I can do the "intentionaly left blank page" :P



On Feb 20, 2008 5:14 AM, andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 2008 10:10 PM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> > Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan
> > 9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"
> > typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.
> >
>
> Oh, that one's easy: the single page in that textbook will have the
> following text on it:
>
> "This page intentionally left blank."
>

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Marc Cinq Brillant]

You more annoying than 99% of people.

I save Uriel time - you fuck off!

2008/2/19, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com>:
> Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan
> 9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"
> typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.
>
> On Feb 19, 2008, at 11:56 PM, Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente
> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps there could be an "autoanswer" mail account...
> > newbie@plan9.net or something... :P
> >
> > On Feb 20, 2008 4:44 AM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Feb 19, 2008 9:50 PM,  <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
> >>>> Maybe somebody should set up a script that looks for emails with
> >>>> subjects similar to "new to Plan 9", "Plan 9 newbie", etc. and
> >>>> sends a message with links to the wiki.
> >>>> I'm only half joking.
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> first that.
> >>>
> >>> iru
> >>
> >> We used to have FAQs in the good old days.  The Plan 9 one has been
> >> deceased a while, maybe we should distil the wiki knowledge into it
> >> for a shorter, more static document?  I'm not volunteering, but if
> >> others think it's worthwhile I'll certainly be willing to assist.
> >>
> >> ++L
> >>
> >>
>
>


--
Ce n'est pas une chanson d'amour

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Gorka Guardiola]

On Feb 20, 2008 6:10 AM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan
> 9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"
> typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.
>

Trouble reading, have you?.
There is so many docs, including the sources that this kind of
sarcasm is just demeaning yourself.

For example:
http://lsub.org/who/nemo/9.intro.pdf
or
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Installation_instructions/index.html
or
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/thread

Any trouble with troff?. I guess if you were writing docs, there may be
(though you can also write them in latex or plain text, even in Plan 9).
But no writing either, are we?, just whining.
--
- curiosity sKilled the cat

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Bruce Ellis]

i think gorka wants you to type ...

grep whining /sys/games/lib/fortunes

brucee

On Feb 20, 2008 6:32 PM, Gorka Guardiola <paurea@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 2008 6:10 AM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> > Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan
> > 9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"
> > typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.
> >
>
> Trouble reading, have you?.
> There is so many docs, including the sources that this kind of
> sarcasm is just demeaning yourself.
>
> For example:
> http://lsub.org/who/nemo/9.intro.pdf
> or
> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Installation_instructions/index.html
> or
> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/thread
>
> Any trouble with troff?. I guess if you were writing docs, there may be
> (though you can also write them in latex or plain text, even in Plan 9).
> But no writing either, are we?, just whining.
> --
> - curiosity sKilled the cat
>

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Russ Cox]

unsubscribe rsc@swtch.com

> Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan
> 9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"
> typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Pietro Gagliardi]

Okay, not the reaction I expected, and not one of my better ideas.
Time to walk away and go improve pico...

On Feb 20, 2008, at 1:13 PM, Russ Cox wrote:

> unsubscribe rsc@swtch.com
>
>> Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan
>> 9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"
>> typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.
>

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[hiro]

It's not just about being new to Plan 9. Plan 9 in a way has been new
to the world itself all the time, even though it's last centurie's
technology. And sometimes it feels just pointless to go this - sane -
way.
But if you earnestly chose your path and have come this far, don't
make no compromises now. Stick to the few things you know for sure,
and you will spot a lot more of this wisdom soon. It's a lot of work,
because you have to think for yourself. If you want more examples look
at the source code, cause you won't find much tutorial-like
documentation here. You will only find freedom, and endless
possibilites. Working with Plan 9 won't give you all these big
problems you probably know from "modern" operating systems, which all
force you spending most of your time solving them. That's why you
rather don't even know where to start, or what to do next. It's all
the great possibilities and flexibility.
Plan9 is an operating system where thinking is supported natively!
This is at least what i think i learned about plan9 in the last
months. It has ever since since awkwardly amazed me.

I'm glad there are other newcomers, climbing out of that pit of
darkness. This is a way which is otherwise lonely and exhausting,

RE: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 516 bytes --]

>unsubscribe rsc@swtch.com


Did Russ just bail??



-----Original Message-----
From: 9fans-bounces+bhuntsman=mail2.cu-portland.edu@cse.psu.edu on behalf of Russ Cox
Sent: Wed 2/20/2008 10:13 AM
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?
 
unsubscribe rsc@swtch.com

> Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan  
> 9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"  
> typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.



[-- Attachment #2: winmail.dat --]
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Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Bruce Ellis]

at least 99% of him.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Benjamin Huntsman
<BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu> wrote:
> >unsubscribe rsc@swtch.com
>
>
> Did Russ just bail??
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 9fans-bounces+bhuntsman=mail2.cu-portland.edu@cse.psu.edu on behalf of Russ Cox
> Sent: Wed 2/20/2008 10:13 AM
> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
> Subject: Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?
>
> unsubscribe rsc@swtch.com
>
> > Or perhaps someone should write a book aimed at newbies on using Plan
> > 9 from Bell Labs. It would be called "Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs,"
> > typeset in troff, and not go into technical details.
>
>
>

RE: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[lucio]

>>unsubscribe rsc@swtch.com
>
>
> Did Russ just bail??

That would be sad, to put it mildly.  Some new arrivals on Plan 9 seem
unshakable, some eventually figure out this is not the right
playground and move along.  I'd rather lose a thousand new arrivals
than a single developer.

++L

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Iruata Souza]

On Feb 19, 2008 8:11 PM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> First off, finish learning to use rc, rio, and acme. You'll need both
> of them :-)
>

have you finished it already?

iru

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[devrin talen]

On Feb 19, 2008 7:40 PM, Iruata Souza <iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote:
> have you finished it [rc, rio, acme] already?

I've learned what the intro tutorials offered. I still feel like
there's a lot to learn!

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Iruata Souza]

On Feb 19, 2008 9:48 PM, devrin talen <jackfrost13@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 2008 7:40 PM, Iruata Souza <iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > have you finished it [rc, rio, acme] already?
>
> I've learned what the intro tutorials offered. I still feel like
> there's a lot to learn!
>

my answer was to pietro, davrin.
there's always something to learn, but not everyone thinks that way.
fortunately you do.

iru

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Kernel Panic]

devrin talen wrote:

>On Feb 19, 2008 7:40 PM, Iruata Souza <iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>have you finished it [rc, rio, acme] already?
>>
>>
>
>I've learned what the intro tutorials offered. I still feel like
>there's a lot to learn!
>
>
i would suggest you just to play arround and have fun... :-) all that
reading is
for nothing if you dont USE it...

what you play depends on what you are interested in...

for me, one of the most interesting things about plan9 is the
development enviroment...
so maybe start some hacking... find something that *YOU* actually need
and is
missing on plan9 and program it yourself. (by stealing from similar code
of course ;-))

good luck!

cinap

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Pietro Gagliardi]

Most of /sys/doc is technical and programmer-friendly. I was thinking
something more like the Lomutos' "A UNIX Primer."

On Feb 20, 2008, at 4:39 AM, Kernel Panic wrote:

> devrin talen wrote:
>
>> On Feb 19, 2008 7:40 PM, Iruata Souza <iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> have you finished it [rc, rio, acme] already?
>>>
>>
>> I've learned what the intro tutorials offered. I still feel like
>> there's a lot to learn!
>>
> i would suggest you just to play arround and have fun... :-) all
> that reading is
> for nothing if you dont USE it...
>
> what you play depends on what you are interested in...
>
> for me, one of the most interesting things about plan9 is the
> development enviroment...
> so maybe start some hacking... find something that *YOU* actually
> need and is
> missing on plan9 and program it yourself. (by stealing from similar
> code of course ;-))
>
> good luck!
>
> cinap
>

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Iruata Souza]

On Feb 20, 2008 10:29 AM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> I was thinking

have you ever considered quitting that business?

iru

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[john]

> I've been interested in Plan 9 for a little while now and finally got
> around to setting up a virtual plan 9 installation via qemu. As
> someone completely new to the operating system I've been reading the
> man pages, getting familiar with sam and acme, randomly clicking
> around, etc. What would you suggest for some next (baby) steps?

1) Get familiar with mouse chording ASAP. It's great. If you don't
   have a true 3-button mouse, go get one right now.
2) Read as much of /sys/doc as you can handle. They're good papers
   and will help you understand the system better. Start with
   9.ps and 9.intro.pdf
3) Get a spare box/clone your qemu install and set up a cpu/auth/file
   server. You won't get the "real" Plan 9 experience until you have
   at least a cpu/auth/file server and a terminal; then, a lot more
   things will make sense.
4) Use Google Groups to search comp.os.plan9 (I find their search
   works pretty well) before you ask a question here--it may have
   already been answered.
5) Have fun, and illegitimi non carborundum :)

John

Re: [9fans] New to plan 9: what next?

[Iruata Souza]

On Feb 19, 2008 7:58 PM, devrin talen <jackfrost13@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been interested in Plan 9 for a little while now and finally got
> around to setting up a virtual plan 9 installation via qemu. As
> someone completely new to the operating system I've been reading the
> man pages, getting familiar with sam and acme, randomly clicking
> around, etc. What would you suggest for some next (baby) steps?
>

http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/who/nemo/9.intro.pdf
good reading.

iru