* [9fans] PowerPC Booting @ 2003-07-03 5:26 northern snowfall 2003-07-03 4:35 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff 0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 5:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Hey all, How is everyone booting Plan9 on their Mac? I'm trying to boot off a floppy. Of course, 9mtx wont' be recognized since it's not XCOFF. Any suggestions? Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 5:26 [9fans] PowerPC Booting northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 4:35 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff 2003-07-03 5:47 ` northern snowfall 0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: Geoff Collyer, geoff @ 2003-07-03 4:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans I don't believe anybody has Plan 9 running on the Mac. See the archives for what it would take to make it run. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 4:35 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff @ 2003-07-03 5:47 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 4:50 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 5:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > >I don't believe anybody has Plan 9 running on the Mac. >See the archives for what it would take to make it run. > Are there any docs on how Open Firmware booting works? All I can find are binaries and techniques that use XCOFF on floppy disks. The ether card in my Old World isn't bootable as there is no OF-ROM in it. I don't want to install plan9 on the disk, I'd like to save the MacOS9. Thus, writing a boot loader is probably in my best interest. Any URLs/etc are appreciated. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 5:47 ` northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 4:50 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff 2003-07-03 5:59 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 6:15 ` John Packer, john 2003-07-03 13:18 ` D. Brownlee 2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: Geoff Collyer, geoff @ 2003-07-03 4:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 264 bytes --] You're looking at a non-trivial bit of work. For one thing, the Apple Ethernet interfaces are unique to Apple, so we have no drivers for them (currently anyway). But 9mtx isn't going to work if you get it loaded for a lot of other reasons; see the archives. [-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2663 bytes --] From: northern snowfall <dbailey27@ameritech.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:47:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3F03C368.4080308@ameritech.net> > > >I don't believe anybody has Plan 9 running on the Mac. >See the archives for what it would take to make it run. > Are there any docs on how Open Firmware booting works? All I can find are binaries and techniques that use XCOFF on floppy disks. The ether card in my Old World isn't bootable as there is no OF-ROM in it. I don't want to install plan9 on the disk, I'd like to save the MacOS9. Thus, writing a boot loader is probably in my best interest. Any URLs/etc are appreciated. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 4:50 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff @ 2003-07-03 5:59 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 5:32 ` Tad Hunt 0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 5:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > >You're looking at a non-trivial bit of work. For one thing, the Apple >Ethernet interfaces are unique to Apple, so we have no drivers for >them (currently anyway). But 9mtx isn't going to work if you get it >loaded for a lot of other reasons; see the archives. > I don't care if it's non-trivial. I want plan9 on this mac and I will get it on this mac. The ether is just a tulip. The driver is already in the mtx tree. There will be issues with bandit, sure, but I want to learn this architecture: case closed. So, if anyone out there *has any docs/tips/pointers* for generating boot files to manage floppy boots, let me know. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 5:59 ` northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 5:32 ` Tad Hunt 0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Tad Hunt @ 2003-07-03 5:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans In message <3F03C63E.3060000@ameritech.net>, you said: ;So, if anyone out there *has any docs/tips/pointers* for generating ;boot files to manage floppy boots, let me know. Check out the NetBSD project. I know they run on power mac's www.netbsd.org -Tad ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 5:47 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 4:50 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff @ 2003-07-03 6:15 ` John Packer, john 2003-07-03 12:15 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 13:18 ` D. Brownlee 2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: John Packer, john @ 2003-07-03 6:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans You've probably seen these, but try: http://playground.sun.com/1275/bindings/ppc/release/ppc-2_0.html http://playground.sun.com/1275/home.html http://www.openfirmware.org as well as the nedbsd source. Also, you might have a look at the 2ed Plan9 sparc sources. The sparc PROM is similiar to what you will find on a Mac. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 6:15 ` John Packer, john @ 2003-07-03 12:15 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 12:14 ` Tomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 12:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > >as well as the nedbsd source. > Ah, the NetBSD source helped. It solved the fd-just- doesnt-seem-to-CLAIM issue. My Power Macintosh refuses to boot certain devices if the output-device is set to the on-board video. Booting NetBSD bootdisks blind works properly if output- device is set to !screen. However, I have yet-another- problem. I don't have a MiniDIN8 serial cable for the Macintosh. Nor do I have a null modem. It seems that I can generate a null modem fairly easily, according to: http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Misc/serial.html#mac However, I am faced with several problems: a) I have to build my own MiniDIN8 cable 1) what wires do i use? 2) how do i get the 'connector'...? 3) how does it interface with the 'null modem' b) I have to build my own null modem 1) see a){1,2} c) I have zero experience with wiring and am extremely nervous about this. I don't want to lose this Mac, even though I bought it cheap. 1) every machine is precious I'd love some assistance in building a serial cable from the MiniDIN8 to a standard i86pc serial port. I'm very willing to try things out, as long as the factors are known and I'm not putting the hardware at a risk of shorting out, etc. I'm sure there are peopel on this list with experience in this area of work. I'd appreciate the help. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 12:15 ` northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 12:14 ` Tomas 2003-07-03 16:31 ` Jack Johnson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: Tomas @ 2003-07-03 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 at 7:15am, northern snowfall wrote: > >as well as the nedbsd source. > > > Ah, the NetBSD source helped. It solved the fd-just- > doesnt-seem-to-CLAIM issue. My Power Macintosh refuses > to boot certain devices if the output-device is set to > the on-board video. > > Booting NetBSD bootdisks blind works properly if output- > device is set to !screen. However, I have yet-another- > problem. I don't have a MiniDIN8 serial cable for the > Macintosh. Nor do I have a null modem. > > It seems that I can generate a null modem fairly easily, > according to: > http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Misc/serial.html#mac > > However, I am faced with several problems: > a) I have to build my own MiniDIN8 cable > 1) what wires do i use? > 2) how do i get the 'connector'...? > 3) how does it interface with the 'null modem' > b) I have to build my own null modem > 1) see a){1,2} > c) I have zero experience with wiring and am extremely > nervous about this. I don't want to lose this Mac, > even though I bought it cheap. > 1) every machine is precious > > I'd love some assistance in building a serial cable from the > MiniDIN8 to a standard i86pc serial port. I'm very willing to > try things out, as long as the factors are known and I'm not > putting the hardware at a risk of shorting out, etc. > > I'm sure there are peopel on this list with experience in > this area of work. I'd appreciate the help. Trying to install and run a headless and diskless SGI Indy, I am also having problems due to MiniDIN8 connectors. It's no fun changing boot parameters in the PROM and trying to boot diskless when there's only a keyboard, ethernet and power cable connected to the machine -- I'd like to see that I really type in correct values, and also why the boot fails halfway through. So far it's been impossible to find a MiniDIN8<->DB9 serial cable (or a MiniDIN8<->DB25 plus a DB25<->DB9 converter), or even a MiniDIN8 connector. But I hear there's a Mac store near the Portland airport that might have some... anyways, I've been thinking about simply cutting off one end of a DB9 cable and plugging in the wires, one by one, directly into the contact on the Indy, using the pinout maps on the URL you mentioned above, as I can't seem to get my hands on a MiniDIN8 connector. Just haven't had the time yet. Building a cable isn't that hard. A soldering iron is helpful, but there are also snap-in connectors for us who don't like soldering. I doubt there are snap-in connectors for MiniDIN8 though, just DB9/DB25... but the pins on connectors are numbered, and it's usually a breeze to build a cable if one has instructions such as those on the NetBSD page. I'll try to get time to fiddle with this during my vacation, and if I have any success I'll let you know. Finally, aren't there some retailers specializing in Mac stuff in the US, from which one should be able to get a MiniDIN8<->DB25 cable? That might be the best solution. If anyone knows, I'd appreciate it if they shared. /Tomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 12:14 ` Tomas @ 2003-07-03 16:31 ` Jack Johnson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Jack Johnson @ 2003-07-03 16:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 05:14, Tomas wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 at 7:15am, northern snowfall wrote: > > I'd love some assistance in building a serial cable from the > > MiniDIN8 to a standard i86pc serial port. I'm very willing to > > try things out, as long as the factors are known and I'm not > > putting the hardware at a risk of shorting out, etc. > So far it's been impossible to find a MiniDIN8<->DB9 serial cable > (or a MiniDIN8<->DB25 plus a DB25<->DB9 converter), or even a > MiniDIN8 connector. I've got a Wyse 60 from a garage sale and I went to some random Mac store and bought a standard Macintosh modem cable (MiniDIN8<->DB25) and have had zero problems. Another trick you can use if you need a serial console from a Mac (and maybe the Indy, too) is to use another old Mac and find an appropriate cable. You'll find they come in two types: ones with a little Apple symbol on the connector and one with two-way arrows: <--- ---> The latter seem to make fine null modem cables. As for rolling your own, I'm also a wiring loser, but your local severe-geek store (looks like a Radio Shack on steroids) should have MiniDIN8 connectors, and if you're lucky or brave you may be able to find a MiniDIN8<->RJ45 adapter, which means you could get a DB9/DB25<->RJ45 (very easy to find) for the other end, some cable, ends and a crimper and do some experimentation pretty easily, sans soldering iron. Good luck! -Jack ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 5:47 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 4:50 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff 2003-07-03 6:15 ` John Packer, john @ 2003-07-03 13:18 ` D. Brownlee 2003-07-03 14:33 ` northern snowfall 2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: D. Brownlee @ 2003-07-03 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans northern snowfall wrote: > Are there any docs on how Open Firmware booting works? All At netbsd.org, look at the 'macppc' port, you'll find links to Open Firmware, booting macs from disk or network. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 13:18 ` D. Brownlee @ 2003-07-03 14:33 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 13:57 ` D. Brownlee 0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > At netbsd.org, look at the 'macppc' port, you'll find > links to Open Firmware, booting macs from disk or network. > I actually meant the low level OF interface between the boot image and the OF that chooses it. The NetBSD ofwboot sources were pretty enlightening for this issue. I've already got my own XCOFF image loading, I just can't see it yet. Only 1,000 more things to go! Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 14:33 ` northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 13:57 ` D. Brownlee 2003-07-03 15:36 ` northern snowfall 0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: D. Brownlee @ 2003-07-03 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > I've already got my own XCOFF image loading, I just can't see > it yet. Only 1,000 more things to go! > I don't think getting Plan 9 working on a power pc mac is as hard as some of the archived discussions might indicate. With the NetBSD macppc source, you can easily find alot of the low level software/hardware interface issues solved, and recent macs use PCI, ATI graphics and IDE drives, so the hardware isn't totally proprietary anymore. One suggestion though: NetBSD's 'macppc' port, v1.5, had some buggy USB code, which is fixed in 1.6.1. Good Luck! (I have an iMac I'd like to run Plan 9 on) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 13:57 ` D. Brownlee @ 2003-07-03 15:36 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 15:23 ` matt 2003-07-04 17:39 ` Jake Luck 0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 15:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Good Luck! (I have an iMac I'd like to run Plan 9 on) Don't get too excited, I'm mainly focused on getting plan9 on my Power Mac 5400/120. Further research would probably be of interest to me, sure, but, it'd have to be a concerted effort since I don't have all the hardware for testing. I wont release code unless I test it, especially if the code is hardware related. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 15:36 ` northern snowfall @ 2003-07-03 15:23 ` matt 2003-07-04 17:39 ` Jake Luck 1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2003-07-03 15:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > Don't get too excited, I'm mainly focused on getting plan9 > on my Power Mac 5400/120. that's exciting enough, a quick trip to ebay sees them at $20 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-03 15:36 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 15:23 ` matt @ 2003-07-04 17:39 ` Jake Luck 2003-07-04 0:36 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff 1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread From: Jake Luck @ 2003-07-04 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans North: for OW-booting you might want to take a look at BootX http://penguinppc.org/~benh/ It bootstraps off a running MacOS which gives you a lot of facilities such as filesystem network etc. Good luck jake ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] PowerPC Booting 2003-07-04 17:39 ` Jake Luck @ 2003-07-04 0:36 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff 0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: Geoff Collyer, geoff @ 2003-07-04 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans I'm not claiming that it's impossibly hard to port Plan 9 to the Mac (and I'd be happy to have it running on more common systems, not just PCs and bitsys), just that it will take some work. I'd start by looking at a current Darwin release, though I have found that it takes a while to distill BSD and Linux code, especially drivers, to their essentials, since they tend to be excessively complex. As a recent example, 3ware's Linux driver for their IDE RAID controller is a 4,174 lines long (3,155 NCSL). That's over 74 pages, printed with pr; it's a short book. This is insane! It's just a bloody controller (and the hardware is supposed to be doing most of the work, as it should). The entire Unix V6 kernel was only 11,600 lines. Admittedly, the OpenBSD 3ware driver is just 1,550 lines, but that's still too big. It's also true that hardware is even more of a pain in the ass than it used to be, but over 4,000 lines to drive a disk controller is just bloat. As you've alluded, there's also a difference between having Plan 9 running on a particular Mac and having it running on all (or even just New World) Macs. For instance, for newer Macs, you'll need USB, USB keyboard and, for terminals, USB mouse support, unless you can get by with using the OpenFirmware routines. I also don't know if the existing Power PC ports of Plan 9 are prepared to cope with multiple processors, which isn't fatal, but it would be good to exploit a second processor on machines that have them. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* [9fans] PowerPC Booting @ 2003-07-06 16:52 A. Baker 0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread From: A. Baker @ 2003-07-06 16:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Mac cables can be bought at resale shops and flea markets. <--- ---> Search: MiniDIN8 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=MiniDIN8&btnG=Google+Search http://www.national-tech.com/specs/10m3-06115.htm MiniDIN8 null http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=MiniDIN8+null&btnG=Google+Search http://www.hinton.demon.co.uk/mac/mac_if.html#null Good luck, I'd love to see Plan 9 PPC. ===== Boojum __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-07-06 16:52 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 18+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2003-07-03 5:26 [9fans] PowerPC Booting northern snowfall 2003-07-03 4:35 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff 2003-07-03 5:47 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 4:50 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff 2003-07-03 5:59 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 5:32 ` Tad Hunt 2003-07-03 6:15 ` John Packer, john 2003-07-03 12:15 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 12:14 ` Tomas 2003-07-03 16:31 ` Jack Johnson 2003-07-03 13:18 ` D. Brownlee 2003-07-03 14:33 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 13:57 ` D. Brownlee 2003-07-03 15:36 ` northern snowfall 2003-07-03 15:23 ` matt 2003-07-04 17:39 ` Jake Luck 2003-07-04 0:36 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff 2003-07-06 16:52 A. Baker
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