Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[presotto]

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There's no port that I know of.  There are a few people considering
it at the labs but no action yet.

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From: David <penguinpower80@hotmail.com>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:32:03 GMT
Message-ID: <a1bf2068.0209052018.67143e26@posting.google.com>

Does anyone out there know if there are any ports of Factotum and
secstore to either Linux or Windows, or where I could begin to look
for these?

If not, does anyone know of a good resource to help with how to port
something like this to other os's?

Thanks in advance!!

David

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[andrey mirtchovski]

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002 presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote:

> There's no port that I know of.  There are a few people considering
> it at the labs but no action yet.

i'm considering it as part of my masters project here.

my supervisor at the University of Calgary is into Grid Computing, and
while reading the introductory papers (www.globus.org) i can't help
but notice that most of what's considered a 'problem for Grid Computing
to solve' has already be solved in P9...

i'm trying to make a case for p9 around here (UofC) but i'm banging
my head against the 'plan9 is not usable, there are no applications for it'
wall, so i'll try to present at least its ideas as worthy of consideration
for Griddy people. this probably includes porting factotum and secstore to
linux...

now, porting a single program does not a masters' thesis make (no matter
how hard the port may be), so i'm still fishing for ideas...

offtopic: i remember reading a text which praised p9 for its
distributedness ('using your colleague's machine and the corporate server
in china is one and the same' or something like that was the quote i
remember best) which i'm desperately trying to find.. if you remember
it please point me towards it, thanx :)

andrey

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[Ronald G Minnich]

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, andrey mirtchovski wrote:

> i'm trying to make a case for p9 around here (UofC) but i'm banging
> my head against the 'plan9 is not usable, there are no applications for it'
> wall, so i'll try to present at least its ideas as worthy of consideration
> for Griddy people. this probably includes porting factotum and secstore to
> linux...

so how stupid is that? i hear it all the time, right after people explain
how we have source to our apps. This drives me nuts! So the people aren't
into recompiling code? AAAAAAAAARRRRRRGH.

ron

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[Russ Cox]

'How I ported the [Mozilla|Konqueror]
HTML rendering engine to plan9 and
made it fit well with the rest of the system.'

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[matt]

> 'How I ported the [Mozilla|Konqueror]
> HTML rendering engine to plan9 and
> made it fit well with the rest of the system.'


talking of which, has anyone even started doing an HTML DOM file system?

i.e. throw it some html and it produces the DOM tree in files & folders

The code for the w3 HTML validator is available under a GPL compatible
license.
http://validator.w3.org/source/

On the downside it's perl, but it's self contained. If it runs under the p9
perl you could even just use the code straight as it produces a nice textual
parse tree.


m


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Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[Russ Cox]

But then you want to do more than just run apps.
The selling point shouldn't be ``you can run your apps''
but rather ``you can have your Grid and your security.''

My point was that if apps are the only thing, it's not
worth selling Plan 9.  If apps are an important thing
but there are other important things that Plan 9 is
good at, then I admit it's a tougher sell.

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[andrey mirtchovski]

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Russ Cox wrote:

> But then you want to do more than just run apps.
> The selling point shouldn't be ``you can run your apps''
> but rather ``you can have your Grid and your security.''
>

that's exactly what i had in mind. that's why i'm going through
the grid papers available on globus.org and for each problem posed
there i'm finding a plan9 solution (how to use cpu cycles somewhere
else? 'cpu'; how to share resources between different machines? '9p';
how to import remote resources transparently? 'everything is a file';
how to do everything that, and, more securely? 'factotum'; and no,
you don't really need a myriad of applications and protocols to
achieve it -- it's already been done).

that's an oversimplification, i admit, but you get the general idea.
now all i have to do is make it good enough to convince ppl p9 is
worth looking at...

andrey

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[matt]

I wish someone should do a thesis entitled :

'How I ported the [Mozilla|Konqueror] HTML rendering engine to plan9'

m :)


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Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[Russ Cox]

if the answer to ``what do you want from your os''
is ``i just want to run apps'' then don't even bother
with plan 9.  there are lots of things plan 9 is good at,
and if those are important to you, then use plan 9.
if all you want is apps, it's silly to use plan 9.

i want to run apps too.  that's why, most of the time,
i use windows with plan 9 inside vmware.

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[Ronald G Minnich]

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Russ Cox wrote:

> if the answer to ``what do you want from your os''
> is ``i just want to run apps'' then don't even bother
> with plan 9.  there are lots of things plan 9 is good at,
> and if those are important to you, then use plan 9.
> if all you want is apps, it's silly to use plan 9.

depends. If you want to do Grid things, and you want reasonable security,
you won't get there with Unix. There are some fundamental problems with
e.g. Globus that in reality are due to its having to work on Unix (or NT,
for that matter). They're not fixable.

We think it should be possible to to do a real workable Grid with Plan 9.
So it matters. (We hope to do a demo in the next few months).

Unless you think the Grid is bullshit, for which belief a reasonable case
can be made :-)

ron

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[peter huang]

I would love to see some of the grid stuff on plan9.   some of the concept
is not so different.  data grid is like file server.  computing grid is like
cpu server.  gsi can only be enhanced by factotum and secstored.

-peter

"Ronald G Minnich" <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0209061047410.9180-100000@xed.acl.lanl.gov...
> On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Russ Cox wrote:
>
> > if the answer to ``what do you want from your os''
> > is ``i just want to run apps'' then don't even bother
> > with plan 9.  there are lots of things plan 9 is good at,
> > and if those are important to you, then use plan 9.
> > if all you want is apps, it's silly to use plan 9.
>
> depends. If you want to do Grid things, and you want reasonable security,
> you won't get there with Unix. There are some fundamental problems with
> e.g. Globus that in reality are due to its having to work on Unix (or NT,
> for that matter). They're not fixable.
>
> We think it should be possible to to do a real workable Grid with Plan 9.
> So it matters. (We hope to do a demo in the next few months).
>
> Unless you think the Grid is bullshit, for which belief a reasonable case
> can be made :-)
>
> ron

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[anothy]

well, to be fair, i think it's more that people arn't into
mucking around with config/autoconf stuff for hours before
they can even attempt to recompile their app, only to find
that all the #ifdefs don't quite match up because something
in the autoconf mucking they did isn't *quite* right, and
that even after sorting all that out, the various included
bits arn't *quite" ANSI/POSIX, or they rely on various
"extentions" that "everybody" has, in one form or another
(or several forms), hence all the #ifdefs.

if really all it involved was typing 'make' (or mk, or
whatever), this wouldn't be an issue. but things are hard
enough going from linux to, for example, FreeBSD. APE
does a pretty good job of matching ANSI/POSIX - but the
code in question often doesn't.
ア

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[anothy]

well, porting a program from plan 9 to linux may not make a masters
thesis, but getting factotum integrated would, i suspect, be much
more than just the port. at a minimum, i suspect you'll have to do
something like PAM integration or the like, and possibly deeper
stuff, as well. probably still not quite a masters thesis, but a
lot more than a port. and if you get ambitious enough, there's
probably alot of room for working on this area in Linux - think
about getting NFS from remote (stock) systems to cooperate.
ア

[9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[David]

Does anyone out there know if there are any ports of Factotum and
secstore to either Linux or Windows, or where I could begin to look
for these?

If not, does anyone know of a good resource to help with how to port
something like this to other os's?

Thanks in advance!!

David

Re: [9fans] Ports of Factotum and secstored

[William Josephson]

On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 09:32:03AM +0000, David wrote:
> Does anyone out there know if there are any ports of Factotum and
> secstore to either Linux or Windows, or where I could begin to look
> for these?

I did a port earlier this summer so I could
get an auth server and file server (of sorts)
running on a Unix box.  Unfortunately, it isn't
in a state I'd like to distribute it yet and
I've run out of time to work on it for the
moment.  If no one gets around to it in the
next couple of months, I may pick it up again.

> If not, does anyone know of a good resource to help with how to port
> something like this to other os's?

I'm not sure what you're after here.  With
the exception of mount/bind and graphics
code, the Plan 9 source is far more portable
than most Unix software IME.