Re: [9fans] ddc

[Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>]

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 nigel@9fs.org wrote:

> I really wanted to understand where you are coming from.  It seems you
> feel that Plan 9 has failed, and so ANYone contributing to it is
> wasting effort.  Fair enough; I understand your position.

No, I have -never- said Plan 9 failed. If I thought Plan 9 had failed
would I have been following it for something like 17 years (ie USENIX in
'84 or '85 whenever it was Pike gave the initial talk)? Would I spend
fucking hours, money, and time listening to shit like this? Would I put up
with egotistical insecure dumbasses like Doc [1] following me around  with
nothing better to do than stir shit? Would I have machines named Pike,
Ritchie, et al? No, no, and no.

What I am is extremely dissapointed in you the Plan 9 user community and
the developers of Plan 9 itself. So much potential and you piss it away.
And to think I at one time held several of you in high esteem...
familiarity breeds contempt may be more true than I like to admit.

Where you people get this sort of dumbass shit is beyond me. Go back and
actually -READ- what I post instead of what your over-active defensive
imagination -thinks- it's reading. For a bunch of people that claim to be
so smart you are pretty damn dumb (at least in managing your emotions).
Must be a -very- large group of S's [2] here.

This is a -perfect- example of what my bitch is. The Plan 9 community is
so damned inbred it isn't funny, and it -will- cause Plan 9 to fail. -YOU-
will cause it to fail. Get this through your thick damned heads. This has
been clear to me for over two years. It's the reason when R3 came out I
asked if the license permits a core code split (I was told it does). I'll
let you figure that one out on your own since I posted my intent on this
very list. I'm worried about R4 because that license looks like it may
prevent a core code split so we won't be able to use any of it, too bad.

Another major aspect of why this group (NOT Plan 9) will fail is its
over-active focus on 'authority'. What Pike, et al says is fine, it isn't
gospel. What they want or don't want is nothing more than a suggestion.
Your blind faith that they'll lead you to Nirvana is just plain childish
and stupid. Your inability to even consider alternate approaches is also
stupid. Your defensive attitude when somebody goes their own way is
nothing more than a indication of your limited imagination and
understanding of the market. In my personal opinion the best thing that
could happen to Plan 9 is for Lucent (talk about dumbasses) to go under.

Question authority, it questions you.

Of course some of you -want- it to fail, you want it to remain a
'research' OS. I don't. I intend to go forward and push Plan 9, Inferno,
and other Open Source technology out into the market [3]. Kloc's and
-YOUR- expectations be damned. To that end Hangar 18 was established and
will continue to operate as long as I have air to breath and a better
solution doesn't present itself.

Jeesh. Maybe I should use smaller words and shorter sentences.

Hangar 18 exists to build a -THRIVING- user community that consists of a
global distributed computing cluster based on tit-for-tat [1]. It will
support both hobby and commercial users and participants. So far we're
doing ok. We've got something like 40+ machines available at this
time. We have half a dozen nodes here in Austin, a node in NY hooked
into NY Wireless (Hi Carlos!), a host of BSD machines sitting in
Missouri, & a very small group in N. Carolina (and given time I'm sure
I'll have a group in Beijing, PRC in the next couple of years). I am
trying to talk The Farmers into using Plan 9 to do one of the very first
'distributed raves' either next year or the following year. The major
problem is how to manage all this. We are currently  setting up a handfull
of root auth servers to handle that. We intend to support both r3 and r4
(just in case r4 does prevent a core code split). I have the folks who did
Mixmaster waiting in the wings now to port it over once we've got the
basic auth infrastructure working reliably. I'm also working to replace
the DES based crypto and put something in much harder to crack. The Austin
group is also working on a (very simple) hardware project related to
point-to-point open air  optical networking that is intended to be
submitted to one of the Linux magazines around the New Year. It will
involve Plan 9, Linux, and Windows.

A major problem with this group is your focus on the end of your nose. I
hope to look a tad farther out myself. If you want to at least try to
also, then consider Hangar 18.

How many of -YOU- have started local user groups? Pretty low number for
such -active- users and promoters of Plan 9. Plan 9 has been Open Source
for two (2) years and it still looks like Hangar 18 is the only user group
out there. And you have the temerity to crow about -YOUR- contribution?

You people keep focusing on kloc's and such ego trivia, one of these days
very soon you're going to wake up and Plan 9 will have run off and left you in
its dust.

And every damned one of you will still be welcome to participate and
contribute as -YOU- feel comfortable doing. We don't count kloc's or have
any other reason to exclude ANYONE who has the most trivial interest in
Plan 9, Open Technology and its social impact, or their individual
freedoms. We have a simple solution for folks like Doc as well. We revoke
their auth keys when they get out of line. We don't intend to build a
system and then let some Gang of Four take it over through political
wrangling. It's too damn important to trust to any single group.

Hope that at least helps answer your question.

Ta ta.


[1] When Plan 9 came out I went to the local Austin Linux Group and asked
    the then Board of Directors (consisting of the actual forming members
    of ALG) to start a SIG related to technology applications of Open
    Source technology. I was given permission to do just that, to the
    point of having an hour for discussion at the last meeting of the
    month as well as a seperate mailing list. Doc and his cronnie buddies
    then proceeded to use this as a reason to stage a coup and take over
    the group. They've now instituted dues and a whole host of other
    measures to keep control of the group (eg lose somebodies reciept for
    their dues and all of a sudden they have no say in the group). The
    group has seen a precipitous drop in activity and membership since
    then.

    And just to be clear he was one of the vocal anti-Plan 9 sect.

    I'm telling you folks, watch this one. He wants your virgins and gold.

[2] Myers-Briggs

[3] Read Lessig's "Code" for another set of reasons to not let Plan 9
    languish in this hot house from hell you've created. I've been an
    active political agitator for more than 20 years, and if the
    potentials of Plan 9 aren't exploited -NOW- they -NEVER- will be
    because the two forms of law will preclude it. Commercial and
    political entities will forclose on -YOUR- future while you sit around
    and piss your opportunity away on internecine bickering. I don't
    intend to let it happen if I can help it. You've got until about
    2006 to do something about it. Wake the hell up.


 --
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    We don't see things as they are,                      ravage@ssz.com
    we see them as we are.                                   www.ssz.com
                                                  jchoate@open-forge.org
    Anais Nin                                         www.open-forge.org

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