From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: ron minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports
In-Reply-To: <065701c426d1$24af11d0$0fca7d50@SOMA>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404200840490.13657-100000@maxroach.lanl.gov>
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:56:15 -0600
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On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, boyd, rounin wrote:

> debian managed to shoot themselves in the foot with some libc,
> some time back.  you couldn't go forward 'cos other stuff would
> break and you couldn't go back 'cos more stuff would break.

gets better. Symbols are now versioned (well, this really happened a few
years back). So you are very tightly screwed (good word) to the library
you use, and it covers a definite range forward/backward. I assume but am
not sure that glibc nowadays encompaesses lots of versions of lots of
functions going back for years. Which also means the version naming of the
file (libc-2.3.2.so) has a lot less meaning than it used to. At some
point, given the tight wiring of an executable to the particular library
version, one starts to lose track of just why .so's are still thought to
be a good idea (I mean, on a 1960s-era Burroughs machine with not much
memory, I get it, but ... /bin/cat on my Redhat box at 20K, is not much
smaller than /bin/cat on Plan 9 (22K stripped), and the Plan 9 one doesn't
do symbol fixup every time it runs ...).

And, as Linus mentioned, TLBs matter. Hmm. Judging by 'ps', cat on linux
needs 256 of them, and cat on Plan 9 needs 6. xclock has got 900 or so, 
and Plan 9 clock appears to have 3*30 or so (3 clock procs when you run 
clock). 

So you do pay a bit for .so's. You don't gain an
implementation-independent interface for your programs, since the .so is
versioned and the symbols in it are versioned; I wonder what you DO gain?  
The theory always was you could swap out a shared library and swap in a
bug-fixed version, which sounds nice until you try it and it fails
miserably (there was a time when this worked ...)

ron