Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[F.J.Ballesteros]

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I'd love to see them. 


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From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com
To: cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz, 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:47:55 -0400
Message-ID: <20010608134758.E40AF19A71@mail.cse.psu.edu>

It was a joke.  At least two of us have privately mailed her our
plan 9 prsentations.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Dan Cross]

In article <20010608135051.65A5F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write:
>I'd love to see them. 

I would, too.

	- Dan C.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[andrey mirtchovski]

i've posted that before, but...

here's my p9 presentation for an undergraduate project i did last year,
html-ed off of powerpoint:

http://homepage.usask.ca/aam396/P9BL.html


andrey

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Dan Cross wrote:

> In article <20010608135051.65A5F199C1@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write:
> >I'd love to see them. 
> 
> I would, too.
> 
> 	- Dan C.
> 
> 

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Axel Belinfante]

> i've posted that before, but...
> 
> here's my p9 presentation for an undergraduate project i did last year,
> html-ed off of powerpoint:
> 
> http://homepage.usask.ca/aam396/P9BL.html

I tried to grab this using wget (for off-line browsing) but did not succeed.
Would it be possible to package the whole thing in a gzip-ed tar file or so?

On the topic of spreading the word:
I will be trying to convince my colleages about some of the nice
features of plan9/inferno - in particular the advantage (abstraction)
that you may get by using a file system as interface.
The group I work in works on 'formal methods' both on theory and tools;
the tools usualy consist of components that somehow interface which
each other, and using file-system like interfaces seems very attractive.
As proof-of-concept I made my first limbo program to 'unfold' (construct)
the labelled transition system for a given automaton (finite state machine)
step by step by repeatedly reading 'successor' files, and the result is
that 'on top of that' we would be able to write a 'simulator'
in a shell script. This turned out to be pretty convincing to the few
coleagues I showed this so far. 

Now (one of) the questions that probably will come up
(rephrased: that I hope to come up :-)
is how we can integrate (profit from) the inferno/plan9 niceties
(ideas, implementation environment) in our current development
environment (sun/solaris, pc/linux), without comitting us completely
to plan9 (I have running it on left-over hardware, I would be delighted
but pretty surprised if I could convince people here to run plan9 on
the desktop - most of our desktops are now sun; drawterm works)
Foreseeable constraints are that:
on the one hand we need still to be able to connect to legacy tools
that live in the unix world and cannot be ported (e.g. because they
depend on libraries for which we don't have source)
and offer e.g. a C api on which we want to build,
and on the other hand we want to still be able to distribute the
tools we develope in such a way/shape that others can use them -
and they likely run unix, not plan9.
My first guess would be that developing in inferno/limbo could do
the trick w.r.t. distribution, and that we could deal with legacy
tools by building file-system interface wrappers around them.

Any ideas, comments?
Axel.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[andrey mirtchovski]

On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Axel Belinfante wrote:

> 
> I tried to grab this using wget (for off-line browsing) but did not succeed.
> Would it be possible to package the whole thing in a gzip-ed tar file or so?

yeah... it is a powerpoint presentation saved in .html format and uses
javascript heavily. it normally redirects you to another page... they really
created this with a certain MS browser in mind. I suggest snagging the
actual powerpoint presentation and then saving it as html locally (my quota
prevents me from putting a .tgz copy of it on the web)

the powerpoint presentation is located at:
http://homepage.usask.ca/aam396/P9BL.ppt 

andrey

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[okamoto]

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When I tried to show it to our students, yes, I also felt it's not easy to do.
However, as I know Plan 9 is very easy to maintain system and users, and
to write programs, I started to do it by reading papers such as "Plan 9 from
Bell Labs" etc. with them.

Today, I asked Yoshitatsu what was his first impression of Plan 9 when he
touched, and his answer is that it was "then, so what?". :-)  I understand it,
because Plan 9 doesn't have "killer application" except of acme. which is
only for programmers or system maintainers.  However, he is writing Plan 9
application now.  However, this is not accepted by many of Japanese _SOFTWARE_
companies, if any... (sigh)

Kenji


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From: Laura Creighton <lac@cd.chalmers.se>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Cc: lac@cd.chalmers.se
Subject: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-ID: <200106080930.LAA04591@boris.cd.chalmers.se>

I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them.  Can I get notes
and stuff from you?  Also, what works?  What will impress them?  And
yes i _have_ the papers from 1127, the stuff I want to steal from you
is what you did with that.

Thanks very much,
Laura Creighton

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Borja Marcos]

On Monday 11 June 2001 07:13, you wrote:
> When I tried to show it to our students, yes, I also felt it's not easy to
> do. However, as I know Plan 9 is very easy to maintain system and users,
> and to write programs, I started to do it by reading papers such as "Plan 9
> from Bell Labs" etc. with them.

	Plan 9 is a distributed system. It looks especially designed for 
heterogeneous networks, the kind of real-world applications you can find. 
When I read the first paper about the design of Plan 9 and its way to 
accomodate heterogeneous networks, with both high-speed local networks and 
slow-speed dialup accesses, it was quite obvious that a similar design (and 
it was the Inferno design goal) would be excellent for a service provider 
such as a cable modem network (or xDSL) who deploys "network computers" 
instead of simple set-top boxes.

	Other distributed OSs (Amoeba, for example) are designed with local area 
networks in mind, using the network as a bus for a processor pool if I 
oversimplify it. Plan 9, on the other hand, allows the developer and network 
architect distribute the applications taking into account the available 
bandwidth in each of the networks involved.

	In a real world network, the bandwidths can be as low as 33600 bps (a pstn 
modem) and as high as a gigabit. Apart from the elegant design, I think it 
can be the most interesting feature for many people.



	Borja.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[pac]

Hi,
I am a computer self -made-man, and will, probably, be pretty green in CS forever (I am a researcher in biology).
However, I am _so_ impressed by Plan 9, and I'll tell you why:

i)   it shifts the paradigm  from kernel to a universal protocol
ii)  everything is a file
iii)  it is _clean_ as it  consistently uses i and ii,
iv)  it was designed from scratch with an _idea_ in mind
v)   the creators were not afraid (unlike many others) to throw away anything from the old stuff that seemed garbage
vi)  it is _elegant_, AFAI can judge, (cf., e.g., how elegantly it got rid of the X11, sic!)
vii)  it is minimalistic, I mean that everything is implemented carefully with respect to possible overhead, instead of
       "just be satisfied, boy, that the app works, and don't bother how (and why :-)
I have some previous experience as a user/programmer under the following "OSes" (strating in mid-eighties): TI programmable calculator :-)
-> CP/M -> DOS -> Windoze -> NEXTSTEP -> OpenStep -> GNU-Linux . I repeat I am a _greenhorn_ in CS,
but take this as a "look from outside".
Hope Plan 9 will remain clean, elegant, and open in the future (to remain also free would be nice, at least for us `Easties').
Thanks for it.

Cheers,
Peter.

--
Peter A. Cejchan
Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci.,
Rozvojova 135, Prague 6
CZ-16502 Czech Republic
<cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz>

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Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[pac]

ix)  it is modular
x)   believe me or not, I like it's UI (actually, originally I was attracted to Plan 9 by 9wm of Linux...but in 
those days Plan 9 was not free and open source) - it is so different and minimalistic, and I was impressed


--
Peter A. Cejchan
Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci.,
Rozvojova 135, Prague 6
CZ-16502 Czech Republic
<cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A plea:
Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at
http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Axel Belinfante]

> x)   believe me or not, I like it's UI (actually, originally I was attracted 
> to Plan 9 by 9wm of Linux...but in 
> those days Plan 9 was not free and open source) - it is so different and mini
> malistic, and I was impressed

Same here:
 sam -> reading about help, and being impressed -> wily -> acme,
 and of course 9term  :-)
(I still remember the day when I in 'automatic non-thinking editing mode'
 I used an editing chord in my mail program (exmh) - did not work, sigh ;-))
Axel.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[pac]

xi)  Unicode
xii)  system-wide cut and paste


--
Peter A. Cejchan
Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci.,
Rozvojova 135, Prague 6
CZ-16502 Czech Republic
<cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A plea:
Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at
http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[F.J.Ballesteros]

: Or you don't care
: about attracting young people?

I think you are right. They should hire Alan Parsons instead.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[presotto]

It was a joke.  At least two of us have privately mailed her our
plan 9 prsentations.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[pac]

Okay, I understand. I love black humor, too!
No flames. Cheers,
Peter.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[presotto]

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Hire brittany spears

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From: Ish Rattan <ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu>
To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:35:35 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106080633030.27308-100000@pali.cps.cmich.edu>

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Laura Creighton wrote:

> I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them.  Can I get notes
> and stuff from you?  Also, what works?  What will impress them?  And
It is difficult to impress anybody with a new system. I have tried it
here and answer is so waht? Maybe a good looking presenter might do
it..

- ishwar

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Matt]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com>
To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.


> Hire brittany spears
> 
She's not Open

ymmv 


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Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[pac]

>> 
>> > Hire brittany spears
>> > 
>> She's not Open
>> 
>> ymmv 
>> 

I'm afraid i don't understand a word, or my knowledge of English is too poor. I thought she was
politely asking us for a help, and that she's about to do a beneficial thing, no? Or you don't care
about attracting young people?
Cheers,
Peter.
--
Peter A. Cejchan
Dept. Paleobiology, Inst. Geology Acad. Sci.,
Rozvojova 135, Prague 6
CZ-16502 Czech Republic
<cej@cejchan.gli.cas.cz>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A plea:
Please, consider your support to the Public Library of Science initiative at
http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Boyd Roberts]

> > Hire brittany spears
> > 
> She's not Open

in today's london's _the sun_ i read she was in hiding 'cos of
a major zit problem.  guess reading _the sun_ is an occupational
hazard, in brit ex-pat bars, if you want to drink cider and you're
not in normandy.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Matt]

it's probably stretching the definition of "reading"

> > > Hire brittany spears
> > > 
> > She's not Open
> 
> in today's london's _the sun_ i read she was in hiding 'cos of
> a major zit problem.  guess reading _the sun_ is an occupational
> hazard, in brit ex-pat bars, if you want to drink cider and you're
> not in normandy.
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Boyd Roberts]

> it's probably stretching the definition of "reading"

true, but every once in a while you have to check how
truly awful it really is.  i don't think they can even
count now 'cos the 'page 3' girl is no longer on page 3.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Matt]

it's like a car crash, a little bit horrible but you can't help looking

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Boyd Roberts" <boyd@fr.inter.net>
To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.


> > it's probably stretching the definition of "reading"
> 
> true, but every once in a while you have to check how
> truly awful it really is.  i don't think they can even
> count now 'cos the 'page 3' girl is no longer on page 3.
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.261 / Virus Database: 131 - Release Date: 07/06/2001

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Martin Harriss]

Boyd Roberts wrote:
> 
> > it's probably stretching the definition of "reading"
> 
> true, but every once in a while you have to check how
> truly awful it really is.  i don't think they can even
> count now 'cos the 'page 3' girl is no longer on page 3.

No longer on Page Three?  Surely this means the end of the British
Empire!

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Dan Cross]

In article <20010608125901.6A71219A50@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write:
>Hire brittany spears

I thought the goal was to train the next generation of stellar
computer scientists...If so, why ask that personification of
mediocrity to present new material to them?

	- Dan ``I ain't no teeny bopper....'' C.

:-)

[9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Laura Creighton]

I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them.  Can I get notes
and stuff from you?  Also, what works?  What will impress them?  And
yes i _have_ the papers from 1127, the stuff I want to steal from you
is what you did with that.

Thanks very much,
Laura Creighton

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Ish Rattan]

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Laura Creighton wrote:

> I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them.  Can I get notes
> and stuff from you?  Also, what works?  What will impress them?  And
It is difficult to impress anybody with a new system. I have tried it
here and answer is so waht? Maybe a good looking presenter might do
it..

- ishwar

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Boyd Roberts]

> What will impress them?

ftpfs is pretty impressive and it demonstrates a core idea.

plumbing is probably another one.

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[arisawa]

Hello,

>I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them.
>Can I get notes and stuff from you?  Also, what works?
>What will impress them?  Andyes i _have_ the papers
>from 1127, the stuff I want to steal from you is what
>you did with that.

If your system is running on 9fs kernel, dumpfs is a good candidate.
bind -b /n/dump/2001/0401 /
will impress them.

Kenji Arisawa
E-mail: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[paurea]

Laura Creighton writes:
 > From: Laura Creighton <lac@cd.chalmers.se>
 > Subject: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.
 > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 +0200 (MET DST)
 > 
 > I want to make a `this is plan 9' presentation to them.  Can I get notes
 > and stuff from you?  Also, what works?  What will impress them?  And
 > yes i _have_ the papers from 1127, the stuff I want to steal from you
 > is what you did with that.

I have shown plan9 to a lot of people and it is *very* difficult to
impress newcomers, because they expect advanced graphics...  That
said, I recommend using acme to navigate around some sources and
running some grep or some script on ftpfs. 

-- 
                 Saludos,
                         Gorka

"Curiosity sKilled the cat"
-- 
    /"\
    \ /    ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail 
     X                           - against ms attachments
    / \

Re: [9fans] I've got 4 student intern (undergraduates) here.

[Jonathan Sergent]

On Friday, June 8, 2001, at 06:48 PM, paurea@dei.inf.uc3m.es wrote:

> I have shown plan9 to a lot of people and it is *very* difficult to
> impress newcomers, because they expect advanced graphics...  That
> said, I recommend using acme to navigate around some sources and
> running some grep or some script on ftpfs.

So does anyone have any graphics demos?