[9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for me?

[9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for me?

[Laura Creighton]

I have discovered that today's computer science students, at least  
some extremely good ones from here at any rate, think that algorithms
are a consumer good that you buy shrink-wrapped or something.  At any
rate, the idea of going to the math library, reading a math journal,
and writing code of whatever strikes your fancy, is an utterly
bizarre and strange thing to do.   We had better rock some minds then
if we want to have any cool algorithms to play with that we didn't make
ourselves.

Laura

Re: [9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for me?

[Dan Cross]

In article <200106091216.OAA08427@boris.cd.chalmers.se> you write:
>I have discovered that today's computer science students, at least  
>some extremely good ones from here at any rate, think that algorithms
>are a consumer good that you buy shrink-wrapped or something.  At any
>rate, the idea of going to the math library, reading a math journal,
>and writing code of whatever strikes your fancy, is an utterly
>bizarre and strange thing to do.   We had better rock some minds then
>if we want to have any cool algorithms to play with that we didn't make
>ourselves.

I agree, to some extent.  Today's computer science programs are very
much like sausage factories that turn out a mediocre product; computer
scientists are the `spam' of the academic world.  Why is that? Well,
because the institutions let the students dictate the curriculum.  Why
is that?  So they attract more students, so they can make more money.
In turn, the majority of the students just want good jobs, and see a CS
degree as a way of obtaining that.

So, what ends up happening is that many students get vocational
training in a four year undergraduate CS program, and end up coming out
of school without any appreciation of even conception of the
mathematical basis of comp sci.  Without that understanding, they
cannot build or even understand elegant systems; they are impressed by
the thin veneer of the user interface and associate that wholy and
completely with the underlying system.  That's the only world they've
known, and no one has taught them anything else.

Of course, all of this is a sweeping generalization; there are
obviously exceptions.  Also, this isn't inherent in the students
themselves; it's the Universities that do them a disservice by
attempting to be ``relevant.'' But I've noticed a definate trend
whereby students emerge with bachelor's degrees knowing more about
Visual C++ than about, say, the basic sorting or graph traversal
algorithms.

It's a sad state of affairs, but I think that it will improve;
I predict that within the next, say, 10 to 15 years, we'll start to
see Software Engineering departments getting spun off from CS departments
much as Electrical Engineering departments were once spun off from
Physics.  I predict that when this happens (if, indeed, it does at all)
both departments will gain a new focus and retreat back to their core.
I also predict that in industry, things like the IEEE Software
Engineering certification will start to take off, leading to a greater
focus on what's real versus what's hot today.

We'll see.

Oh, and no, I can't quite figure out how to teach Plan 9.  Well, too
things have worked so far; 1) As Kenji mentioned, the temporal filesystem
is always a good demonstration; show them /n/dump.  2) I do a demo where
I put an audio CD in my CD-ROM drive on my desktop machine, and then
listen to it on my bitsy while walking around.  That usually really
impresses people, but assumes that you have a) an ``orinocco'' network,
and b) a bitsy.  Oh, and some audio CD's that people like.  :-)

	- Dan C.

Re: [9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for me?

[andrey mirtchovski]

our computer science department has strong roots in algorithmics. there is a
second and two third year classes that deal entirely with them (the second
year class is a prerequisite for most third year classes, the first third
year class is taken by most computer science students, either willfully or
not. the last class is usually taken by no more than 10 students and is
required for honours).

here are the class descriptions:

CMPT 260: Mathematical Logic and Computing

 Focuses on elementary applied logic and set theory and relates these
 concepts to a variety of computer science areas such as syntactic
 analysis, relational databases, logic programming, artificial
 intelligence, and formal program verification. 

 Textbook: W. K. Grassmann, J. P. Tremblay: Logic and Discrete Mathematics,
 a Computer Science Perspective Prentice Hall 1996. 


CMPT 360: Machines and Algorithms

 The first part develops and analyzes some standard techniques for algorithm
 development which are widely applicable to computer science
 problems. The second part analyzes several models of computers so that
 their capabilities are known. 

 Text: Fundamentals of Algorithmics, 1996 G. Brassard and P. Bratley 


CMPT 361: Intractable Problems and Models of Computation

 Problems which have no known efficient solution are studied; exact
 inefficient algorithm design techniques are introduced, as are efficient
 approximation algorithms. NP-completeness proofs are developed as evidence
 of intractability. Part of the course is a rigorous and
 systematic introduction to models of computation via formal language theory. 

 Text: Computational Complexity by Papadimitriou 


Andrey


On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Laura Creighton wrote:

> I have discovered that today's computer science students, at least  
> some extremely good ones from here at any rate, think that algorithms
> are a consumer good that you buy shrink-wrapped or something.  At any
> rate, the idea of going to the math library, reading a math journal,
> and writing code of whatever strikes your fancy, is an utterly
> bizarre and strange thing to do.   We had better rock some minds then
> if we want to have any cool algorithms to play with that we didn't make
> ourselves.
> 
> Laura
>