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* [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
@ 2022-01-24 11:12 mycroftiv 9gridchan
  2022-01-24 12:02 ` Alexandr Babic
                   ` (4 more replies)
  0 siblings, 5 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: mycroftiv 9gridchan @ 2022-01-24 11:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
maybe I have heard secondhand.
We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
humans requires good information resources and support.
The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
counterculture.

Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
JenBen

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 11:12 [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation mycroftiv 9gridchan
@ 2022-01-24 12:02 ` Alexandr Babic
  2022-01-24 12:13   ` hiro
  2022-01-24 12:45 ` Steve Simon
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Alexandr Babic @ 2022-01-24 12:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


hello.

please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but discuss it elsewhere.
sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking about computers :-) :-)

thanx, a.b.
 

 
----- Původní zpráva -----
Odesilatel: mycroftiv 9gridchan (mycroftiv@sphericalharmony.com)
Datum: 01/24/22 12:14
Příjemce: 9fans@9fans.net
Předmět: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
maybe I have heard secondhand.
We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
humans requires good information resources and support.
The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
counterculture.

Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
JenBen


------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 12:02 ` Alexandr Babic
@ 2022-01-24 12:13   ` hiro
  2022-01-24 12:38     ` Duke Normandin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2022-01-24 12:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

it wouldn't be called *poli*tics if it was just "everyone own's", just fyi.

On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
> 
> hello.
> 
> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
> discuss it elsewhere.
> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
> about computers :-) :-)
> 
> thanx, a.b.
> 
> ----- Původní zpráva -----
> Odesilatel: mycroftiv 9gridchan (mycroftiv@sphericalharmony.com)
> Datum: 01/24/22 12:14
> Příjemce: 9fans@9fans.net
> Předmět: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
> 
> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
> maybe I have heard secondhand.
> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
> humans requires good information resources and support.
> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
> counterculture.
> 
> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
> JenBen
> 

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 12:13   ` hiro
@ 2022-01-24 12:38     ` Duke Normandin
  2022-01-24 14:42       ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2022-01-24 17:40       ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2022-01-24 12:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans



>> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
>> 
>> hello.
>> 
>> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
>> discuss it elsewhere.
>> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
>> about computers :-) :-)
>> 
>> thanx, a.b.

I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for my taste. 

Is there a bloody moderator here that not “tripping” most of the time?

Let’s get the garbage off this frigging list and get down to the business of using/improving Plan 9 and friends. 

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 11:12 [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation mycroftiv 9gridchan
  2022-01-24 12:02 ` Alexandr Babic
@ 2022-01-24 12:45 ` Steve Simon
  2022-01-24 12:49   ` Federico Benavento
  2022-01-24 18:18 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy adr
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Steve Simon @ 2022-01-24 12:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

i suggest first you check your facts carefully before publicly accusing anyone of anything.

throwing unchecked accusations around is a good way to start an angry mob, and we all know how inclusive those tend to be.

-Steve



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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 12:45 ` Steve Simon
@ 2022-01-24 12:49   ` Federico Benavento
  2022-01-24 12:56     ` Alexandr Babic
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Federico Benavento @ 2022-01-24 12:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 614 bytes --]





> On 24 Jan 2022, at 09:45, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> 
> i suggest first you check your facts carefully before publicly accusing anyone of anything.
> 
> throwing unchecked accusations around is a good way to start an angry mob, and we all know how inclusive those tend to be.
> 
> -Steve
> 
> 

+1

—-
Federico G. Benavento
benavento@gmail.com

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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 12:49   ` Federico Benavento
@ 2022-01-24 12:56     ` Alexandr Babic
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Alexandr Babic @ 2022-01-24 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 396 bytes --]

back to C and 9 :-)
shouldn't we write:
int i=0; ++i;

instead of +1

:-D
-- 
Odesláno aplikací K-9 Mail ze systému Android. Omluvte prosím moji stručnost.
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 12:38     ` Duke Normandin
@ 2022-01-24 14:42       ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2022-01-24 16:43         ` Duke Normandin
  2022-01-24 17:40       ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2022-01-24 14:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 1:38 PM Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
> >> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
> >>
> >> hello.
> >>
> >> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
> >> discuss it elsewhere.
> >> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
> >> about computers :-) :-)
> >>
> >> thanx, a.b.
>
> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for my taste.
>
> Is there a bloody moderator here that not “tripping” most of the time?
>
> Let’s get the garbage off this frigging list and get down to the business of using/improving Plan 9 and friends.

The author suggested writing a book on Plan 9 and the potential author
getting paid for doing so. That would certainly improve the situation,
in my opinion.

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 14:42       ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2022-01-24 16:43         ` Duke Normandin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2022-01-24 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Maybe so! However it’s all the other bullshit that this list and Plan 9 doesn’t need. 

Too many opinions! Remember! Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one. And you know what comes out of both more often than not!

Let’s play with Plan 9 and friends and keep the bizarro bullshit at home. 

> On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:44 AM, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 1:38 PM Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> hello.
>>>> 
>>>> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
>>>> discuss it elsewhere.
>>>> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
>>>> about computers :-) :-)
>>>> 
>>>> thanx, a.b.
>> 
>> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for my taste.
>> 
>> Is there a bloody moderator here that not “tripping” most of the time?
>> 
>> Let’s get the garbage off this frigging list and get down to the business of using/improving Plan 9 and friends.
> 
> The author suggested writing a book on Plan 9 and the potential author
> getting paid for doing so. That would certainly improve the situation,
> in my opinion.

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 12:38     ` Duke Normandin
  2022-01-24 14:42       ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2022-01-24 17:40       ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
  2022-01-24 17:49         ` Duke Normandin
  2022-01-24 17:55         ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Kurt H Maier via 9fans @ 2022-01-24 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
> 
> 
> >> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
> >> 
> >> hello.
> >> 
> >> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
> >> discuss it elsewhere.
> >> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
> >> about computers :-) :-)
> >> 
> >> thanx, a.b.
> 
> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for my taste. 
> 

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
safe space, snowflake.

khm

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 17:40       ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
@ 2022-01-24 17:49         ` Duke Normandin
  2022-01-24 17:53           ` Pablo Tesari
  2022-01-24 17:55         ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2022-01-24 17:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into fucking cesspools.

> On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> hello.
>>>> 
>>>> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
>>>> discuss it elsewhere.
>>>> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
>>>> about computers :-) :-)
>>>> 
>>>> thanx, a.b.
>> 
>> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for my taste. 
>> 
> 
> If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
> safe space, snowflake.
> 
> khm

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 17:49         ` Duke Normandin
@ 2022-01-24 17:53           ` Pablo Tesari
  2022-01-24 17:56             ` Clout Tolstoy
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Tesari @ 2022-01-24 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1205 bytes --]

did I subscribe to 9fags ? 🤔

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 14:51, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:

> Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into
> fucking cesspools.
>
> > On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> hello.
> >>>>
> >>>> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political
> opinion, but
> >>>> discuss it elsewhere.
> >>>> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when
> talking
> >>>> about computers :-) :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> thanx, a.b.
> >>
> >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
> bizarro for my taste.
> >
> > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
> > safe space, snowflake.
> >
> > khm

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* Re[2]: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 17:40       ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
  2022-01-24 17:49         ` Duke Normandin
@ 2022-01-24 17:55         ` Alexandr Babic
  2022-01-24 18:02           ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Alexandr Babic @ 2022-01-24 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 914 bytes --]

>> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for my taste.
> If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
> safe space, snowflake.

khm, you are using snowflake here in wrong context :-(

first letter from original author was snowflakish,
there's no need to use words like "not cool political views, support oppression, amazing and full of rainbow love"
in technical forum.

document "intro to OS abstractions" is great and  i don't what are political views of author.
so tell me who is a snowflake now :-D



a.b.

ps: let's end this and let's answer the problem with uintptr in another thread :-)




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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 17:53           ` Pablo Tesari
@ 2022-01-24 17:56             ` Clout Tolstoy
  2022-01-24 18:06               ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Clout Tolstoy @ 2022-01-24 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2112 bytes --]

Can we be mindful of posting useful information? The original author,
albeit has an opinion, but also offered resources for work. I would put
that on the useful side of things. Simply lamenting an opinion because it
doesn't align with yours is edging on spamming. They have been forward with
themselves and are looking for like minded people to work with. I suppose
half of you all are doing them a favor by opting out.

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 9:55 AM Pablo Tesari <pablotesari@gmail.com> wrote:

> did I subscribe to 9fags ? 🤔
>
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 14:51, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into
>> fucking cesspools.
>>
>> > On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> hello.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political
>> opinion, but
>> >>>> discuss it elsewhere.
>> >>>> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when
>> talking
>> >>>> about computers :-) :-)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> thanx, a.b.
>> >>
>> >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
>> bizarro for my taste.
>> >
>> > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
>> > safe space, snowflake.
>> >
>> > khm
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 17:55         ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
@ 2022-01-24 18:02           ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
  2022-01-24 18:07             ` Jeremy Jackins
  2022-01-24 18:20             ` Keith Gibbs
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Kurt H Maier via 9fans @ 2022-01-24 18:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:55:27PM +0100, Alexandr Babic wrote:
> >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for my taste.
> > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
> > safe space, snowflake.
> 
> khm, you are using snowflake here in wrong context :-(
> 
> first letter from original author was snowflakish,
> there's no need to use words like "not cool political views, support oppression, amazing and full of rainbow love"
> in technical forum.
> 
> document "intro to OS abstractions" is great and  i don't what are political views of author.
> so tell me who is a snowflake now :-D

definitely you.  Someone wants to write a book about a technical topic,
and all you and that other idiot can talk about are the motivations,
because you are intellectually incapable of contributing to technical
work.  

If you don't want to or are incapable of helping with the book, just
archive/delete the email and move on, instead of pissing and moaning
about the rest.

I swear, you snowflakes are the most entitled people.  Not only does
everyone have to talk about what YOU want to talk about, but they cannot
deviate from the topic EVEN SLIGHTLY or you start cramping up.  Get a
life.

khm

------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-Mdad3846f62bfc848b95fcb9d
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 17:56             ` Clout Tolstoy
@ 2022-01-24 18:06               ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
  2022-01-24 18:06                 ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Thaddeus Woskowiak @ 2022-01-24 18:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2400 bytes --]

All of you throwing around curse words and other defamation should be
ashamed of yourselves. You want peace yet you cast the first stones. Grow
up.


On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 12:58 PM Clout Tolstoy <tolstoyclout@gmail.com> wrote:

> Can we be mindful of posting useful information? The original author,
> albeit has an opinion, but also offered resources for work. I would put
> that on the useful side of things. Simply lamenting an opinion because it
> doesn't align with yours is edging on spamming. They have been forward with
> themselves and are looking for like minded people to work with. I suppose
> half of you all are doing them a favor by opting out.
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 9:55 AM Pablo Tesari <pablotesari@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> did I subscribe to 9fags ? 🤔
>>
>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 14:51, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues
>>> into fucking cesspools.
>>>
>>> > On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> hello.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political
>>> opinion, but
>>> >>>> discuss it elsewhere.
>>> >>>> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when
>>> talking
>>> >>>> about computers :-) :-)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> thanx, a.b.
>>> >>
>>> >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
>>> bizarro for my taste.
>>> >
>>> > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
>>> > safe space, snowflake.
>>> >
>>> > khm
>> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M54350aff0ac3775a0464e849>
>

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 18:06               ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
@ 2022-01-24 18:06                 ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Thaddeus Woskowiak @ 2022-01-24 18:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2553 bytes --]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 1:06 PM Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com>
wrote:

> All of you throwing around curse words and other defamation should be
> ashamed of yourselves. You want peace yet you cast the first stones. Grow
> up.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 12:58 PM Clout Tolstoy <tolstoyclout@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Can we be mindful of posting useful information? The original author,
>> albeit has an opinion, but also offered resources for work. I would put
>> that on the useful side of things. Simply lamenting an opinion because it
>> doesn't align with yours is edging on spamming. They have been forward with
>> themselves and are looking for like minded people to work with. I suppose
>> half of you all are doing them a favor by opting out.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 9:55 AM Pablo Tesari <pablotesari@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> did I subscribe to 9fags ? 🤔
>>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 14:51, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues
>>>> into fucking cesspools.
>>>>
>>>> > On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> hello.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political
>>>> opinion, but
>>>> >>>> discuss it elsewhere.
>>>> >>>> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when
>>>> talking
>>>> >>>> about computers :-) :-)
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> thanx, a.b.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
>>>> bizarro for my taste.
>>>> >
>>>> > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you
>>>> a
>>>> > safe space, snowflake.
>>>> >
>>>> > khm
>>> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
>> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
>> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
>> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
>> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M54350aff0ac3775a0464e849>
>>

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 18:02           ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
@ 2022-01-24 18:07             ` Jeremy Jackins
  2022-01-24 18:18               ` Lucas Francesco
  2022-01-24 18:20             ` Keith Gibbs
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Jeremy Jackins @ 2022-01-24 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1804 bytes --]

> Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into
fucking cesspools.

The lack of self awareness is just stunning.

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 10:03, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:55:27PM +0100, Alexandr Babic wrote:
> > >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
> bizarro for my taste.
> > > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
> > > safe space, snowflake.
> >
> > khm, you are using snowflake here in wrong context :-(
> >
> > first letter from original author was snowflakish,
> > there's no need to use words like "not cool political views, support
> oppression, amazing and full of rainbow love"
> > in technical forum.
> >
> > document "intro to OS abstractions" is great and  i don't what are
> political views of author.
> > so tell me who is a snowflake now :-D
> 
> definitely you.  Someone wants to write a book about a technical topic,
> and all you and that other idiot can talk about are the motivations,
> because you are intellectually incapable of contributing to technical
> work.
> 
> If you don't want to or are incapable of helping with the book, just
> archive/delete the email and move on, instead of pissing and moaning
> about the rest.
> 
> I swear, you snowflakes are the most entitled people.  Not only does
> everyone have to talk about what YOU want to talk about, but they cannot
> deviate from the topic EVEN SLIGHTLY or you start cramping up.  Get a
> life.
> 
> khm

------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M488afbcdb6351ecfd8324e05
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy
  2022-01-24 11:12 [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation mycroftiv 9gridchan
  2022-01-24 12:02 ` Alexandr Babic
  2022-01-24 12:45 ` Steve Simon
@ 2022-01-24 18:18 ` adr
  2022-01-24 23:48   ` hiro
  2022-01-24 20:58 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation Marshall Conover
  2022-01-27  4:35 ` raingloom
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: adr @ 2022-01-24 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

People has different points of view about how sociaty is organized.
This can change with time along the way of ones life, sometimes
not. The only way you can promote ideas you think are best for the
future is through dialog, engaging _all_ different kinds of people
in the conversation.

There is a trend now which has came up thanks to the application
of technology to the most stupid behavior of people in general,
the so called social media. This allows people who doesn't do really
anything for anyone to pretend to others and themselves that they
are some kind of brave justice warriors, but acting in the most
cowardly way, twisting words getting them out of context, making
up _rules_ so they can justify attacks and insults to the next poor
bastard. Yes, the next because there is going to be another one,
always.

Witnessing this on this mailing list makes me sick.

One thing I like of old school computer science mailing list is
that complete different people engage in conversations and work
together no matter what political views these people have. There
is room for some healthy discussion on these matters, and normally
it ends by itself when boundaries are crossed. I've seen this
discussions in other lists, and always -when no child(mental) are
involved- there is an effort to keep a friendly atmosphere at the
end.

I've read the books of Ballesteros. Yes, say the name you coward.
The only thing I can say about them is that they need a revision
to a most correct English. Is not easy when you are not a native
speaker. I can notice it when I read it, but I can make the same
mistakes in this very same mail I'm writing.

Maybe some native speaker could help on this.

"support oppression"
"maybe I have heard secondhand"
"fight against right wing ideas"

You see, I don't know you, either Ballesteros, and maybe I would
agree more with the ideas you could _recite_ over a cup of coffee,
but I'm pretty sure a conversation with Ballesteros (whatever ideas
he has) would be more exiting and productive.

This "Tell me only what I want to hear, or we'll ban you" crap...

I think you are not bipolar, you are just another piece of Mr. Hankey.

This list is becoming a South Park Christmas special...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_IMpq_pCvo

> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:12:10 -0600
> From: mycroftiv 9gridchan <mycroftiv@sphericalharmony.com>
> Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
> To: 9fans@9fans.net
> Subject: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
> 
> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
> maybe I have heard secondhand.
> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
> humans requires good information resources and support.
> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
> counterculture.
>
> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
> JenBen

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 18:07             ` Jeremy Jackins
@ 2022-01-24 18:18               ` Lucas Francesco
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Lucas Francesco @ 2022-01-24 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

khm is absolutely right, some of you are entirely missing the point.
If you REALLY want 9fans to be about "no politics"  y'all shall
discuss what should be done or should be avoided in a new book, what
other books got wrong and maybe if theres something to save about the
one op is paying to substitute, maybe then you'll stop being a
dretiment noise on the ML and help the next introduction of a nice
book.

this "no politics discussion" is bullshit btw, 9fans has always been a
politics mess, plan9-adjacent communities conflicting, some not
getting the respect they deserve and whatnot

I don't care if some of the bigots in here are internalising the fact
that the OP is paying up for other people to literally write a
technical book due to reasons that currently affect the wellbeing of a
lot of contributors of some of those 9 projects, the fact is:
mycroftiv is paying for a technical book about 9, don't care about the
political motivations? don't discuss that aspect. Better plan9
material is good even for you "snowflakes".

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 15:08, Jeremy Jackins <jeremyjackins@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into fucking cesspools.
>
> The lack of self awareness is just stunning.
>
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 10:03, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:55:27PM +0100, Alexandr Babic wrote:
>> > >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for my taste.
>> > > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
>> > > safe space, snowflake.
>> >
>> > khm, you are using snowflake here in wrong context :-(
>> >
>> > first letter from original author was snowflakish,
>> > there's no need to use words like "not cool political views, support oppression, amazing and full of rainbow love"
>> > in technical forum.
>> >
>> > document "intro to OS abstractions" is great and  i don't what are political views of author.
>> > so tell me who is a snowflake now :-D
>> 
>> definitely you.  Someone wants to write a book about a technical topic,
>> and all you and that other idiot can talk about are the motivations,
>> because you are intellectually incapable of contributing to technical
>> work.
>> 
>> If you don't want to or are incapable of helping with the book, just
>> archive/delete the email and move on, instead of pissing and moaning
>> about the rest.
>> 
>> I swear, you snowflakes are the most entitled people.  Not only does
>> everyone have to talk about what YOU want to talk about, but they cannot
>> deviate from the topic EVEN SLIGHTLY or you start cramping up.  Get a
>> life.
>> 
>> khm
>
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 18:02           ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
  2022-01-24 18:07             ` Jeremy Jackins
@ 2022-01-24 18:20             ` Keith Gibbs
  2022-01-24 18:33               ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Keith Gibbs @ 2022-01-24 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

+1 

Instead of responding to an idea that would potentially benefit the whole of the community, several people got *personally offended* about the fact that the original author wanted to make sure that the effort was inclusive [as there *are* LGBTQ+, differently abled, and neurodivergent developers in this community]. 

Mr. Babic: “Snowflake" has long changed from being a reference to the stereotype of over-sensitive liberals, but has become more apropos for conservative types who lose their mind and become verbally abusive [“garbage”, “Fuck you”, “9f*gs”], because there is even the most casual reference to non-heterosexual, non-cisgendered people *existing*. Which they do, by the way. Including in this mailing list.

If that cannot be countenanced without abuse, I guess you and Mr. Normandin are in the wrong place. I take personal offence to mycroftiv being called “garbage”, as he is a demonstrably valuable member of the Plan 9 community.

-pixelheresy

> On 24. Jan 2022, at 20.02, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:55:27PM +0100, Alexandr Babic wrote:
>>>> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for my taste.
>>> If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
>>> safe space, snowflake.
>> 
>> khm, you are using snowflake here in wrong context :-(
>> 
>> first letter from original author was snowflakish,
>> there's no need to use words like "not cool political views, support oppression, amazing and full of rainbow love"
>> in technical forum.
>> 
>> document "intro to OS abstractions" is great and  i don't what are political views of author.
>> so tell me who is a snowflake now :-D
> 
> definitely you.  Someone wants to write a book about a technical topic,
> and all you and that other idiot can talk about are the motivations,
> because you are intellectually incapable of contributing to technical
>   work.
> 
> If you don't want to or are incapable of helping with the book, just
> archive/delete the email and move on, instead of pissing and moaning
> about the rest.
> 
> I swear, you snowflakes are the most entitled people.  Not only does
> everyone have to talk about what YOU want to talk about, but they cannot
> deviate from the topic EVEN SLIGHTLY or you start cramping up.  Get a
> life.
> 
> khm

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re[2]: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 18:20             ` Keith Gibbs
@ 2022-01-24 18:33               ` Alexandr Babic
  2022-01-24 18:46                 ` Eli Cohen
  2022-01-24 18:47                 ` Keith Gibbs
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Alexandr Babic @ 2022-01-24 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 840 bytes --]


keith, nice analysis, but what would you think about original post:


>>Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions' book has political views that are not cool and support oppression maybe I have heard secondhand.

this insult to author of 'intro to OS abstractions' is worse than all vulgarities in this thread :-(

this link is the 'intro to os abstractions' book https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjyxsD-gcv1AhWDsKQKHYgFBloQFnoECAUQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.cat-v.org%2Fplan_9%2F9.intro.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3V31IcFr5AdwkH5d_JXrVu


a.b.




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* Re: Re[2]: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 18:33               ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
@ 2022-01-24 18:46                 ` Eli Cohen
  2022-01-24 18:47                 ` Keith Gibbs
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Eli Cohen @ 2022-01-24 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1560 bytes --]

maybe a more recent book could be a community effort at least a bit, I
would be interested in contributing to such a project.

as for nemo... I have no idea who he is really, but that book is pretty
good, although very specific to the setup in his lab

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 10:34 AM Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:

> keith, nice analysis, but what would you think about original post:
>
> >>Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions' book
> has political views that are not cool and support oppression maybe I have
> heard secondhand.
>
> this insult to author of 'intro to OS abstractions' is worse than all
> vulgarities in this thread :-(
>
> this link is the 'intro to os abstractions' book
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjyxsD-gcv1AhWDsKQKHYgFBloQFnoECAUQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.cat-v.org%2Fplan_9%2F9.intro.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3V31IcFr5AdwkH5d_JXrVu
>
> a.b.
>
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-Mca57aba7aa89fe2b04e8c5ea>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 18:33               ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
  2022-01-24 18:46                 ` Eli Cohen
@ 2022-01-24 18:47                 ` Keith Gibbs
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Keith Gibbs @ 2022-01-24 18:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2470 bytes --]

Oh no. Someone doesn’t like Intro to OS abstractions! Someone on the internet has an opinion about someone that you may not agree with!

*clutches pearls* *swoons*

You are an adult, right? You can understand people have different opinions and motivations. He and others don’t like Mr. Ballesteros’ position. Others happy to “death of the author” 9intro and appreciate the work as a text. Others don’t care.

Even if you don’t agree with his motivations, I think we do need efforts for additional documentation, monograph-length books, and introductory material. We, as a point of fact, have a diverse community.

Whether is it specifically about ANTS [which is a very cool project, but perhaps a more limited circle than necessary], documentation and enabling new people to discover and graduate CS students to continue working on projects exploring the Plan 9 system is kind of a good thing. We don’t just need one book. We can have lots of books.

-pixelheresy

> On 24. Jan 2022, at 20.33, Alexandr Babic <alexandr@babicovi.cz> wrote:
> 
> keith, nice analysis, but what would you think about original post:
> 
> >>Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions' book has political views that are not cool and support oppression maybe I have heard secondhand.
> 
> this insult to author of 'intro to OS abstractions' is worse than all vulgarities in this thread :-(
> 
> this link is the 'intro to os abstractions' book https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjyxsD-gcv1AhWDsKQKHYgFBloQFnoECAUQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.cat-v.org%2Fplan_9%2F9.intro.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3V31IcFr5AdwkH5d_JXrVu <https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjyxsD-gcv1AhWDsKQKHYgFBloQFnoECAUQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.cat-v.org%2Fplan_9%2F9.intro.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3V31IcFr5AdwkH5d_JXrVu>
> 
> a.b.
> 
> 9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest> / 9fans / see discussions <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription>Permalink <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-Mca57aba7aa89fe2b04e8c5ea>

------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M23fcb304d6752ca98a70a9f8
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 11:12 [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation mycroftiv 9gridchan
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2022-01-24 18:18 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy adr
@ 2022-01-24 20:58 ` Marshall Conover
  2022-01-24 21:12   ` Russ Cox
  2022-01-27  4:35 ` raingloom
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Marshall Conover @ 2022-01-24 20:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2307 bytes --]

Hi mycroftiv!

I'd be happy to lend some support and at least match your bounty. There's a
lot to explore in the 9 universe beyond what has been covered so far, and I
think the work you've done with ants and grid has been fantastic - and
shows your dedication to growing the ecosystem and welcoming new people.

For those who haven't, I'd recommend trying out the grid. It's connectable
from any 9 system, instructions are here:
http://wiki.9gridchan.org/Connecting/index.html
For those who would like to check out the grid's discussion but run linux
like myself, Sigrid created a client '9gc' that's able to access the
gridchat. It's here: https://git.sr.ht/~ft/9pro

I've found the community to be welcoming, helpful, knowledgeable - and,
unlike my lurker self, very active.

Thank you mycroftiv,

Marshall
a_mistake


On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 06:14 mycroftiv 9gridchan <
mycroftiv@sphericalharmony.com> wrote:

> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
> maybe I have heard secondhand.
> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
> humans requires good information resources and support.
> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
> counterculture.
> 
> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
> JenBen

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-Me8db3788460dfc8f35de711b
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 20:58 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation Marshall Conover
@ 2022-01-24 21:12   ` Russ Cox
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Russ Cox @ 2022-01-24 21:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 327 bytes --]

This thread has stopped being respectful and productive. Let's stop here.
Thanks.

Best,
Russ

------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M2fadb81457247fe9381aac9f
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy
  2022-01-24 18:18 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy adr
@ 2022-01-24 23:48   ` hiro
  2022-01-25  0:30     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
  2022-01-25  5:36     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy Lucio De Re
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2022-01-24 23:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

adr, you seem overly invested only judging from the amount of text,
where you counter politics, with more politics, and shitty extremely
uninformed rhetorics.

contrary to your claims, mycroftiv has always stood by his opinions
(which often differed from mine) and always backed everything up with
good reason. his reasoning is actually sound.

mycroftiv has been keeping on dialog for a long time, for everybody
who was actually interested.

he is also presenting this opinion in some rare emails to bigger
public like 9fans. i think this is meant to be an invitation for
further discourse, as it's never quite overwhelming, not like the
constant flooding of shitty bots on this list.

it's also quite believable that he is *overly* concerned about the
reaction on here, which might make it very hard to say anything at all
(unlike me who doesn't care about my appearance anywhere). by contrast
of our very unalike personalities i seem to relate, much better than
you can, with what is nearly my opposite.

maybe what you (cowardly) are trying to express is that mycroftiv is a
troll? well i might be, he certainly is not. there is never any
*trickery* in his arguments. not much *playing around* with people.
don't mistake openness, and possible illnesses, with trolling, or markov chains.

On 1/24/22, adr <adr@sdf.org> wrote:
> People has different points of view about how sociaty is organized.
> This can change with time along the way of ones life, sometimes
> not. The only way you can promote ideas you think are best for the
> future is through dialog, engaging _all_ different kinds of people
> in the conversation.
>
> There is a trend now which has came up thanks to the application
> of technology to the most stupid behavior of people in general,
> the so called social media. This allows people who doesn't do really
> anything for anyone to pretend to others and themselves that they
> are some kind of brave justice warriors, but acting in the most
> cowardly way, twisting words getting them out of context, making
> up _rules_ so they can justify attacks and insults to the next poor
> bastard. Yes, the next because there is going to be another one,
> always.
>
> Witnessing this on this mailing list makes me sick.
>
> One thing I like of old school computer science mailing list is
> that complete different people engage in conversations and work
> together no matter what political views these people have. There
> is room for some healthy discussion on these matters, and normally
> it ends by itself when boundaries are crossed. I've seen this
> discussions in other lists, and always -when no child(mental) are
> involved- there is an effort to keep a friendly atmosphere at the
> end.
>
> I've read the books of Ballesteros. Yes, say the name you coward.
> The only thing I can say about them is that they need a revision
> to a most correct English. Is not easy when you are not a native
> speaker. I can notice it when I read it, but I can make the same
> mistakes in this very same mail I'm writing.
>
> Maybe some native speaker could help on this.
>
> "support oppression"
> "maybe I have heard secondhand"
> "fight against right wing ideas"
>
> You see, I don't know you, either Ballesteros, and maybe I would
> agree more with the ideas you could _recite_ over a cup of coffee,
> but I'm pretty sure a conversation with Ballesteros (whatever ideas
> he has) would be more exiting and productive.
>
> This "Tell me only what I want to hear, or we'll ban you" crap...
>
> I think you are not bipolar, you are just another piece of Mr. Hankey.
>
> This list is becoming a South Park Christmas special...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_IMpq_pCvo
>
>> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:12:10 -0600
>> From: mycroftiv 9gridchan <mycroftiv@sphericalharmony.com>
>> Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
>> To: 9fans@9fans.net
>> Subject: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
>>
>> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
>> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
>> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
>> maybe I have heard secondhand.
>> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
>> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
>> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
>> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
>> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
>> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
>> humans requires good information resources and support.
>> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
>> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
>> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
>> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
>> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
>> counterculture.
>>
>> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
>> JenBen

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta19a0d2cb0bf4182-Mc910ab1a45e1074e12780f29
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 23:48   ` hiro
@ 2022-01-25  0:30     ` adr
  2022-01-25  0:57       ` hiro
  2022-01-25  5:36     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy Lucio De Re
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: adr @ 2022-01-25  0:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022, hiro wrote:

> adr, you seem overly invested only judging from the amount of text,
> where you counter politics, with more politics, and shitty extremely
> uninformed rhetorics.

Can you at least respect the administrator of the list and wait to
another threat to troll as usual?

------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M36ffde7668d460c8a1d60a60
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25  0:30     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
@ 2022-01-25  0:57       ` hiro
  2022-01-25  4:31         ` Alexandr Babic
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2022-01-25  0:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

i reported your mail to the admin, too.

On 1/25/22, adr <adr@sdf.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022, hiro wrote:
>
>> adr, you seem overly invested only judging from the amount of text,
>> where you counter politics, with more politics, and shitty extremely
>> uninformed rhetorics.
> 
> Can you at least respect the administrator of the list and wait to
> another threat to troll as usual?

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-Mfa9b522bd1f24210de32bccc
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25  0:57       ` hiro
@ 2022-01-25  4:31         ` Alexandr Babic
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Alexandr Babic @ 2022-01-25  4:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 262 bytes --]

censorship, very heroistic :-D :-(
------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy
  2022-01-24 23:48   ` hiro
  2022-01-25  0:30     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
@ 2022-01-25  5:36     ` Lucio De Re
  2022-01-25  7:23       ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Lucio De Re @ 2022-01-25  5:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Microftiv deserves the same kind of respect as Nemo and I think - he
can correct me in private if I'm mistaken, I'll publish the correction
if requested to - the former meant to express that respect, but his
subconscious nabbed him.

I also feel the pressure of wanting to work with like minded people,
it's a strong emotional challenge and isn't exactly unjustified. In
fact, this mailing list comes closest to my comfort zone precisely
because Plan 9 is a choice, not a fashionable one.

One could be even more materialistic, but that's not necessary, just
accept that Microftiv was being defensive, without realising he verged
beyond the offensive.

As for everyone else needing to voice an opinion - including myself -
what is your excuse for insulting people of whom you know only one
facet of their personality?

Lucio.

On 1/25/22, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> adr, you seem overly invested only judging from the amount of text,
> where you counter politics, with more politics, and shitty extremely
> uninformed rhetorics.
>
> contrary to your claims, mycroftiv has always stood by his opinions
> (which often differed from mine) and always backed everything up with
> good reason. his reasoning is actually sound.
>
> mycroftiv has been keeping on dialog for a long time, for everybody
> who was actually interested.
>
> he is also presenting this opinion in some rare emails to bigger
> public like 9fans. i think this is meant to be an invitation for
> further discourse, as it's never quite overwhelming, not like the
> constant flooding of shitty bots on this list.
>
> it's also quite believable that he is *overly* concerned about the
> reaction on here, which might make it very hard to say anything at all
> (unlike me who doesn't care about my appearance anywhere). by contrast
> of our very unalike personalities i seem to relate, much better than
> you can, with what is nearly my opposite.
>
> maybe what you (cowardly) are trying to express is that mycroftiv is a
> troll? well i might be, he certainly is not. there is never any
> *trickery* in his arguments. not much *playing around* with people.
> don't mistake openness, and possible illnesses, with trolling, or markov
> chains.
>
> On 1/24/22, adr <adr@sdf.org> wrote:
>> People has different points of view about how sociaty is organized.
>> This can change with time along the way of ones life, sometimes
>> not. The only way you can promote ideas you think are best for the
>> future is through dialog, engaging _all_ different kinds of people
>> in the conversation.
>>
>> There is a trend now which has came up thanks to the application
>> of technology to the most stupid behavior of people in general,
>> the so called social media. This allows people who doesn't do really
>> anything for anyone to pretend to others and themselves that they
>> are some kind of brave justice warriors, but acting in the most
>> cowardly way, twisting words getting them out of context, making
>> up _rules_ so they can justify attacks and insults to the next poor
>> bastard. Yes, the next because there is going to be another one,
>> always.
>>
>> Witnessing this on this mailing list makes me sick.
>>
>> One thing I like of old school computer science mailing list is
>> that complete different people engage in conversations and work
>> together no matter what political views these people have. There
>> is room for some healthy discussion on these matters, and normally
>> it ends by itself when boundaries are crossed. I've seen this
>> discussions in other lists, and always -when no child(mental) are
>> involved- there is an effort to keep a friendly atmosphere at the
>> end.
>>
>> I've read the books of Ballesteros. Yes, say the name you coward.
>> The only thing I can say about them is that they need a revision
>> to a most correct English. Is not easy when you are not a native
>> speaker. I can notice it when I read it, but I can make the same
>> mistakes in this very same mail I'm writing.
>>
>> Maybe some native speaker could help on this.
>>
>> "support oppression"
>> "maybe I have heard secondhand"
>> "fight against right wing ideas"
>>
>> You see, I don't know you, either Ballesteros, and maybe I would
>> agree more with the ideas you could _recite_ over a cup of coffee,
>> but I'm pretty sure a conversation with Ballesteros (whatever ideas
>> he has) would be more exiting and productive.
>>
>> This "Tell me only what I want to hear, or we'll ban you" crap...
>>
>> I think you are not bipolar, you are just another piece of Mr. Hankey.
>>
>> This list is becoming a South Park Christmas special...
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_IMpq_pCvo
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:12:10 -0600
>>> From: mycroftiv 9gridchan <mycroftiv@sphericalharmony.com>
>>> Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
>>> To: 9fans@9fans.net
>>> Subject: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
>>>
>>> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
>>> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
>>> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
>>> maybe I have heard secondhand.
>>> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
>>> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
>>> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
>>> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
>>> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
>>> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
>>> humans requires good information resources and support.
>>> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
>>> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
>>> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
>>> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
>>> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
>>> counterculture.
>>>
>>> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
>>> JenBen


-- 
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
Kestell (Eastern Free State)
9860 South Africa

Ph.: +27 58 653 1433
Cell: +27 83 251 5824

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25  5:36     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy Lucio De Re
@ 2022-01-25  7:23       ` adr
  2022-01-25  7:26         ` Alexandr Babic
                           ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: adr @ 2022-01-25  7:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022, Lucio De Re wrote:

> Microftiv deserves the same kind of respect as Nemo and I think - he
> can correct me in private if I'm mistaken, I'll publish the correction
> if requested to - the former meant to express that respect, but his
> subconscious nabbed him.
>
> I also feel the pressure of wanting to work with like minded people,
> it's a strong emotional challenge and isn't exactly unjustified. In
> fact, this mailing list comes closest to my comfort zone precisely
> because Plan 9 is a choice, not a fashionable one.
>
> One could be even more materialistic, but that's not necessary, just
> accept that Microftiv was being defensive, without realising he verged
> beyond the offensive.
>
> As for everyone else needing to voice an opinion - including myself -
> what is your excuse for insulting people of whom you know only one
> facet of their personality?
>
> Lucio.

Insulting people... First this moron that is polluting the mailing
list with his stupid bot. It can be funny to you now, wait some
time when you'll try to search the archives.

Then this person starts with this social justice hunting crap,
attributing political views to a plan9 contributor because "maybe
I have heard secondhand..." and then trying to censor his book
"[...]support oppression[...]", the most complete introductory book
to plan9 (language faults apart) that exists nowadays. For those
who don't know, he wrote also an extensive commentary to the Plan
9 source code following John Lions' style, there is nothing like
that anywhere else.

And now he is a victim.

And all the trolling around... give me a break.

I don't know J. Ballesteros. I don't know what are his political
views. I don't bloody care. This is not a twitter morons'
group.

Just for curiosity, in what thread people has been harassed here
for race, sexual orientation, disablility or whatever you want to
add to the list social champion?

A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space, with the typical
well known trolls vomiting now and then, yes, but still full of
knowledge and good spirits.

I don't think there is a point to be subscribed to what is left of
9fans anymore.

Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.

Bye.

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25  7:23       ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
@ 2022-01-25  7:26         ` Alexandr Babic
  2022-01-25  7:32         ` Keith Gibbs
                           ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Alexandr Babic @ 2022-01-25  7:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 240 bytes --]

@adr +100000
------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-Mbb8d58e1093f94bd97ef3e96
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25  7:23       ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
  2022-01-25  7:26         ` Alexandr Babic
@ 2022-01-25  7:32         ` Keith Gibbs
  2022-01-25  7:38           ` Alexandr Babic
  2022-01-25  8:58         ` hiro
  2022-01-28 21:18         ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation: adr
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Keith Gibbs @ 2022-01-25  7:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> On 25. Jan 2022, at 9.23, adr <adr@SDF.ORG> wrote:
> 
> Just for curiosity, in what thread people has been harassed here
> for race, sexual orientation, disablility or whatever you want to
> add to the list social champion?
> 

Perhaps when you said, quote, "I think you are not bipolar, you are just another piece of Mr. Hankey.” 

That is an instance that comes to mind. You literally telling a kind, creative person who is manages his own mental health/neurodivergence (and is open about it), that is he not in fact bipolar, but is instead a talking piece of faeces.

I think we have a kinder space than that here, rather, I think we *should* have a kinder space than this.

-pixelheresy
------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25  7:32         ` Keith Gibbs
@ 2022-01-25  7:38           ` Alexandr Babic
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Alexandr Babic @ 2022-01-25  7:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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genoeg is genoeg
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M7b8c8525ed8c42b580281150
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25  7:23       ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
  2022-01-25  7:26         ` Alexandr Babic
  2022-01-25  7:32         ` Keith Gibbs
@ 2022-01-25  8:58         ` hiro
  2022-01-25 12:26           ` Wes Kussmaul
  2022-01-28 21:18         ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation: adr
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2022-01-25  8:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Insulting people... First this moron that is polluting the mailing
> list with his stupid bot. It can be funny to you now, wait some
> time when you'll try to search the archives.

Are you now trying to casually create the impression that you must
have confused mycroftiv with said bot?

> Then this person starts with this social justice hunting crap,

"social justice hunting" is not descriptive at all.

maybe the term you're searching for is denunciation. and maybe you got
"triggered" (oh the irony) by him not clarifying or backing up with
any kind of evidence.

otoh 9fans has proven itself to be very resistant to general public
opining. which i think we both agree is indeed a good thing. one
single mail (not spamming in my books if it only happens ~once per
year)

> attributing political views to a plan9 contributor because "maybe
> I have heard secondhand..." and then trying to censor his book
> "[...]support oppression[...]", the most complete introductory book
> to plan9 (language faults apart) that exists nowadays. For those
> who don't know, he wrote also an extensive commentary to the Plan
> 9 source code following John Lions' style, there is nothing like
> that anywhere else.
>
> And now he is a victim.

is he? he got accused of one thing by one man. does that make him a
victim? is there a mob, pounding on him, like they do on twitter?

> And all the trolling around... give me a break.

i promise there will be a break in trolling once you learn to make a
coherent argument.


> I don't know J. Ballesteros. I don't know what are his political
> views. I don't bloody care.

I don't bloody care that you don't bloody care.

> This is not a twitter morons'
> group.

In any case 9fans is not twitter, it's up to you to keep your
"morons'" groupies out of this list.

> Just for curiosity

so you're not here to stand for some of your important political
opinions after all? it's all just funny to you?

> in what thread people has been harassed here

every mac os thread is harassment.

> for race, sexual orientation, disablility or whatever you want to

it happens that fashion and disability isn't supported by plan 9. we
discriminate hostowners though.

> add to the list social champion?

social champion? where do you learn terms like this? twitter again?
can i not take part in this conversation without knowing twitter
culture?

> A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space

not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
haven't seen your name in older archives.

> with the typical well known trolls vomiting now and then, yes, but still full of
> knowledge and good spirits.

now you are afraid to call the names? or are you just too lazy to
actually read 10 years of emails so you're trying your luck with
unbacked claims, too?

> I don't think there is a point to be subscribed to what is left of
> 9fans anymore.

do us the favour then.

> Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.

(while clearly not addressed to me)
excellent. thanks for leaving after all.

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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-Mdd2702a9e150cfea037037e9
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25  8:58         ` hiro
@ 2022-01-25 12:26           ` Wes Kussmaul
  2022-01-25 15:39             ` Clout Tolstoy
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2022-01-25 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On 1/25/22 03:58, hiro wrote:
>> A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space
> not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
> haven't seen your name in older archives.

Back then we had discordians disrupting things for sport.

The latest vandal version is the social justice warrior.

There will always be unhappy people who have a need to spread their 
unhappiness.

> Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.
> excellent. thanks for leaving after all.

+1


-- 



*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com

Learn About Authenticity <https://whatisauthenticity.com/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with 
an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.




------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M6886ab76e8fa79926a91ce0f
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25 12:26           ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2022-01-25 15:39             ` Clout Tolstoy
  2022-01-25 18:17               ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Clout Tolstoy @ 2022-01-25 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2954 bytes --]

Yo! Work with them if you want to, don't work with them if you don't want
to.
So, please stop spamming the list with useless infos. Where are all the
adults here?
Most of you have posted NOTHING useful and probably feel proud of yourself,
perhaps angry at others?

If you can't control what triggers you, maybe you shouldn't go out in
public so freely?
Or do some self-work, so what triggers you doesn't affect others.  I for
one, am  happy
for when people announce themselves as allies, or non-allies. Saves me time.

adding "+1" is a joke of a comment and 10,000% useless data. STOP with it
please.
You don't care about their opinions, why should others care about your
stupid "+1"?

The latest vandel is just an idiot with a keyboard, please don't be that
person.

I'm here to learn about Plan 9, C coding and hopefully find like minded
people to
do so with. EVeryone that has opposed this topic here is just a
conserivtive snowflake
melting with rage in the heat? Is that what I am understanding correctly?

If this list isn't about how Plan9 can be the best it could ever be,
especially with new
people, then get off it please?

Now, I'll go back to making popcorn, and watching all the snowflakes piled
up, melting
away. Please  stop being the oppressors of information.

Cheers and my best regards!



On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:29 AM Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:

> On 1/25/22 03:58, hiro wrote:
> >> A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space
> > not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
> > haven't seen your name in older archives.
>
> Back then we had discordians disrupting things for sport.
>
> The latest vandal version is the social justice warrior.
>
> There will always be unhappy people who have a need to spread their
> unhappiness.
>
> > Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.
> > excellent. thanks for leaving after all.
> 
> +1
> 
> --
> 
> *Wes Kussmaul*
> 
> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
> an Authenticity Enterprise
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
> t: +1 781 790 1674
> m: +1 781 330 1881
> e: wes@ReliableID.com
> 
> Learn About Authenticity <https://whatisauthenticity.com/>
> 
> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
> 

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25 15:39             ` Clout Tolstoy
@ 2022-01-25 18:17               ` hiro
  2022-01-25 19:44                 ` Clout Tolstoy
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2022-01-25 18:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

no regards at all. stop spamming mr. clout.

On 1/25/22, Clout Tolstoy <tolstoyclout@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yo! Work with them if you want to, don't work with them if you don't want
> to.
> So, please stop spamming the list with useless infos. Where are all the
> adults here?
> Most of you have posted NOTHING useful and probably feel proud of yourself,
> perhaps angry at others?
>
> If you can't control what triggers you, maybe you shouldn't go out in
> public so freely?
> Or do some self-work, so what triggers you doesn't affect others.  I for
> one, am  happy
> for when people announce themselves as allies, or non-allies. Saves me
> time.
>
> adding "+1" is a joke of a comment and 10,000% useless data. STOP with it
> please.
> You don't care about their opinions, why should others care about your
> stupid "+1"?
>
> The latest vandel is just an idiot with a keyboard, please don't be that
> person.
>
> I'm here to learn about Plan 9, C coding and hopefully find like minded
> people to
> do so with. EVeryone that has opposed this topic here is just a
> conserivtive snowflake
> melting with rage in the heat? Is that what I am understanding correctly?
>
> If this list isn't about how Plan9 can be the best it could ever be,
> especially with new
> people, then get off it please?
>
> Now, I'll go back to making popcorn, and watching all the snowflakes piled
> up, melting
> away. Please  stop being the oppressors of information.
>
> Cheers and my best regards!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:29 AM Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/22 03:58, hiro wrote:
>> >> A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space
>> > not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
>> > haven't seen your name in older archives.
>>
>> Back then we had discordians disrupting things for sport.
>>
>> The latest vandal version is the social justice warrior.
>>
>> There will always be unhappy people who have a need to spread their
>> unhappiness.
>>
>> > Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.
>> > excellent. thanks for leaving after all.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Wes Kussmaul*
>>
>> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
>> an Authenticity Enterprise
>> 738 Main Street
>> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
>> t: +1 781 790 1674
>> m: +1 781 330 1881
>> e: wes@ReliableID.com
>>
>> Learn About Authenticity <https://whatisauthenticity.com/>
>>
>> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
>> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
>> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
>> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
>> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
>> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
>> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
>>

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M6b407194b8a9add43b76ff5a
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-25 18:17               ` hiro
@ 2022-01-25 19:44                 ` Clout Tolstoy
  2022-01-25 20:26                   ` [9fans] War And Peace Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Clout Tolstoy @ 2022-01-25 19:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3652 bytes --]

It's actually Mr. Tolstoy. Mr. Clout Tolstoy, and to be frank if you're not
useful or
have interest in helping, why waste your time? I have interest in helping
if I can.

What do you have to offer? Really? I have plenty of time to offer.

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:19 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> no regards at all. stop spamming mr. clout.
>
> On 1/25/22, Clout Tolstoy <tolstoyclout@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yo! Work with them if you want to, don't work with them if you don't want
> > to.
> > So, please stop spamming the list with useless infos. Where are all the
> > adults here?
> > Most of you have posted NOTHING useful and probably feel proud of
> yourself,
> > perhaps angry at others?
> >
> > If you can't control what triggers you, maybe you shouldn't go out in
> > public so freely?
> > Or do some self-work, so what triggers you doesn't affect others.  I for
> > one, am  happy
> > for when people announce themselves as allies, or non-allies. Saves me
> > time.
> >
> > adding "+1" is a joke of a comment and 10,000% useless data. STOP with it
> > please.
> > You don't care about their opinions, why should others care about your
> > stupid "+1"?
> >
> > The latest vandel is just an idiot with a keyboard, please don't be that
> > person.
> >
> > I'm here to learn about Plan 9, C coding and hopefully find like minded
> > people to
> > do so with. EVeryone that has opposed this topic here is just a
> > conserivtive snowflake
> > melting with rage in the heat? Is that what I am understanding correctly?
> >
> > If this list isn't about how Plan9 can be the best it could ever be,
> > especially with new
> > people, then get off it please?
> >
> > Now, I'll go back to making popcorn, and watching all the snowflakes
> piled
> > up, melting
> > away. Please  stop being the oppressors of information.
> >
> > Cheers and my best regards!
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:29 AM Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/25/22 03:58, hiro wrote:
> >> >> A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space
> >> > not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
> >> > haven't seen your name in older archives.
> >>
> >> Back then we had discordians disrupting things for sport.
> >>
> >> The latest vandal version is the social justice warrior.
> >>
> >> There will always be unhappy people who have a need to spread their
> >> unhappiness.
> >>
> >> > Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.
> >> > excellent. thanks for leaving after all.
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> *Wes Kussmaul*
> >>
> >> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
> >> an Authenticity Enterprise
> >> 738 Main Street
> >> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
> >> t: +1 781 790 1674
> >> m: +1 781 330 1881
> >> e: wes@ReliableID.com
> >>
> >> Learn About Authenticity <https://whatisauthenticity.com/>
> >>
> >> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
> >> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
> >> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
> >> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
> >> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
> >> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
> >> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
> >>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* [9fans] War And Peace
  2022-01-25 19:44                 ` Clout Tolstoy
@ 2022-01-25 20:26                   ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2022-01-25 20:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


Renaming this thread.


On 1/25/22 14:44, Clout Tolstoy wrote:
> It's actually Mr. Tolstoy. Mr. Clout Tolstoy, and to be frank if 
> you're not useful or
> have interest in helping, why waste your time? I have interest in 
> helping if I can.
>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-24 11:12 [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation mycroftiv 9gridchan
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2022-01-24 20:58 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation Marshall Conover
@ 2022-01-27  4:35 ` raingloom
  2022-01-27 10:24   ` Giacomo Tesio
                     ` (2 more replies)
  4 siblings, 3 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: raingloom @ 2022-01-27  4:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mycroftiv 9gridchan; +Cc: 9fans

(this sat in my queue for a few days, I originally wrote it when there
were just 1-2 replies, then saw Russ's message and I held off, but it
looks like the thread is still going, so I might as well fix it
up a bit and send it.)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:12:10 -0600
mycroftiv 9gridchan <mycroftiv@sphericalharmony.com> wrote:

> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
> maybe I have heard secondhand.
> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
> humans requires good information resources and support.
> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
> counterculture.
> 
> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
> JenBen

I like the idea of making Plan 9 more accepting, the techbro saturation
is too high here. I say that as someone who could rightly be classified
as such.
Not sure if rewriting the whole book just to put a different name on
the cover is the best way to go about it. Making a better book
definitely sounds good though.

Side note: technology is political. Deal with it. Software that helps
no one is of no use and who you choose to help with software and count
as a stakeholder (which includes but is not limited to users) is an
inherently political question. Ignoring that just means that you prefer
the status quo.

At the very least with more inclusivity games/memo should be easier to
play in 10 years. ;)

Side note 2: I'd really like to see a bigger emphasis on accessibility
in Plan 9 software. Keyboard navigation would be a good step forward. I
think high contrast and font sizing are already taken care of, more or
less. Internationalization would be cool to support too.
I hope I'm not too much of an SJW heretic for saying that people with
imperfect motor skills (or even just different hardware) should still
be able to use computers. :)
If someone wants to reply that those people should implement those
features themselves, I recommend that they think for 2 seconds first.

As for the book, I haven't been very active in Plan 9 in a while, but
I'm up for proofreading and writing about whatever parts of Plan 9 I do
know. I can also do some illustrations in Blender.
I also volunteer my notes for possible inclusion, I have a pretty
detailed shared 9p root tutorial. It's currently not publicly available
since I took down my wiki, but I can send it here.

Peace and love. UwU

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 52+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-27  4:35 ` raingloom
@ 2022-01-27 10:24   ` Giacomo Tesio
  2022-01-30  2:56     ` raingloom
  2022-01-27 16:11   ` ori
  2022-01-27 21:02   ` hiro
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: Giacomo Tesio @ 2022-01-27 10:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, raingloom, mycroftiv 9gridchan

Hi raingloom, mycroftiv and 9fans,

As you might know I'm pretty heretic in Plan 9 (as much that my for is called Jehanne) 
and I'm also very sympathetic with SJW victims, mostly because SJW basically
try to impose worldwide a US-workplace ethos that is compatible with US-styled 
corporate management.

More often than not, they are in good faith.
But ultimately they become tools of US colonialism, spreading their cultural hegemony.
The trick is basically: convince everybody that they have your problems 
(eg, systemic racism, lgtqmi+ phobics, gender bias and so on) so that they
will accept your corporate-friendly solutions (eg CoCs...)

In Europe being inclusive doesn't mean to be hypocrital, and that's why I'd really like 
to know what "sin" Nemo did to cause all this debate.

More often than not, SJW raise their swords after fictional issues that amount to nothing
and could be basically settled with a honest conversation between openminded adults.

More often than not, what a SJW consider outragous and evil, is said
in a completely different cultural context and environment, so much that they
simply can't (or don't care to) interpret it as intended and understood in that context.

Finally, more often than not, SJW inclusiveness stops before weird people,
(like hackers often are) that do NOT belong to the demographic groups that
populate US's remorse, like blacks, women and so on.

Not to mention that often they are plain blind with the harm their corporations 
cause worldwide (think of the Facebook's SJW that obtained the removal of RMS 
from GCC Steering Committee).

On January 27, 2022 4:35:16 AM UTC, raingloom <raingloom@riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> Side note: technology is political. Deal with it. Software that helps
> no one is of no use and who you choose to help with software and count
> as a stakeholder (which includes but is not limited to users) is an
> inherently political question. Ignoring that just means that you prefer
> the status quo.

I totally agree with this. [1]

Since neolithic, technology is a prosecution of politics by other means.

I agree so much that all my free software projects include a POLITICS.txt that 
explicitly declares the political goals they have.


However, thanks God, not all politics is based on cancel culture, yet.
Hackers do not cancel, we create.

If you feel the need to cancel Nemo's great influence over Plan 9, I'm not interested.

If you want to update his great books, eg to describe 9front, I'd really like to help.
But I'd love to work WITH Nemo, not against him.

I might disagree with Nemo's view on general politics (I really do not know his takes 
on anything) but I think I might well work with him on a well defined political goal
(say "document 9front internals so that anybody can more easily hack it").

Or maybe he doesn't like 9front and prefer to stick to plan9foundation's code, in 
which case I would't partecipate because I can't trust several of the founders [2].


Sure, as you say, deciding who your project serves and how is a political choice.
But it has nothing to do with who you cancel.


Technology is Politics.

But Politics, to me, is to build bridges, not walls.
Cancelling Nemo is not a political achievement.

Building on the great work he donated to this community, is.


My 2 cents.



Giacomo

[1] http://www.tesio.it/2019/06/03/what-is-informatics.html

[2] http://www.tesio.it/2018/02/14/what-i-wish-i-knew-before-contributing-to-open-source.html

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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-27  4:35 ` raingloom
  2022-01-27 10:24   ` Giacomo Tesio
@ 2022-01-27 16:11   ` ori
  2022-01-27 22:45     ` hiro
  2022-01-27 21:02   ` hiro
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2022-01-27 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, mycroftiv; +Cc: 9fans

Quoth raingloom <raingloom@riseup.net>:
> Side note: technology is political. Deal with it.

Everything is political, but allowing posts on a
topic to become explicitly political generally ends
up completely derailing the technical topic.

All too often, the only post with technical content
is the first post in a thread.  The technical content
is drowned in the bullshit.

As a result, help is given off-list if it's given at
all.  It protects the questioner from the deluge of
noise, but hides any debugging steps from anyone who
could learn from them.

This kills the list.

It's important to discuss politics.

Elsewhere.

If you don't have anything technical to say about
plan 9, don't hit the send button.


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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-27  4:35 ` raingloom
  2022-01-27 10:24   ` Giacomo Tesio
  2022-01-27 16:11   ` ori
@ 2022-01-27 21:02   ` hiro
  2022-01-27 21:43     ` Wes Kussmaul
                       ` (2 more replies)
  2 siblings, 3 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2022-01-27 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Side note: technology is political. Deal with it.

I disagree.
Most of the time the forces in power will survive the changes in
technology or even use it for their own benefit, possibly against you
or against your philosophy you came up for in support of your
technology.

Of course there could be a phantastic exception where you use
technology to create a revolution to overcome the status quo, but
that's highly unlikely.

the majority of "hackers" have already failed to be political, when
they sold their souls to the big corps like google and amazon.

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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-27 21:02   ` hiro
@ 2022-01-27 21:43     ` Wes Kussmaul
  2022-01-27 21:48     ` ori
  2022-01-27 22:09     ` Giacomo Tesio
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2022-01-27 21:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


On 1/27/22 16:02, hiro wrote:
> the majority of "hackers" have already failed to be political, when
> they sold their souls to the big corps like google and amazon.


You mean like https://silibandia.com?



*Wes Kussmaul*

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738 Main Street
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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-27 21:02   ` hiro
  2022-01-27 21:43     ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2022-01-27 21:48     ` ori
  2022-01-27 22:09     ` Giacomo Tesio
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2022-01-27 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>:
> > Side note: technology is political. Deal with it.
> 
> I disagree.

Can you please disagree off-list?


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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-27 21:02   ` hiro
  2022-01-27 21:43     ` Wes Kussmaul
  2022-01-27 21:48     ` ori
@ 2022-01-27 22:09     ` Giacomo Tesio
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: Giacomo Tesio @ 2022-01-27 22:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, hiro

Hi hiro.

History is full of counter examples that contraddict your thesis.

At least since neolithic, human organization has been determinated by technology.
The most recent (and most directly related to informatics) were Gutemberg's movable-type
printing press, Meucci's telephone, the general purpose CPU and obviously 
the Internet.

But ancient sailing tech, the steam engine, the car, the H bomb, are few among 
thousands of examples of technological innovation that enabled new (and
always more complex) kind of human organizations.

Actually one could argue that technology is the most powerful political force 
in human society.

On January 27, 2022 9:02:29 PM UTC, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> the majority of "hackers" have already failed to be political, when
> they sold their souls to the big corps like google and amazon.

You are confusing hackers with engineers.

Most hackers ARE politically aware.
They pursuit knowledge instead of power, money or prestige, but they are aware of
the consequences of their hack.

Yet they might align with power anyway.
Some are blind enough or careless enough or individualistic enough to only care about 
their own fun hacks.


Take Pike or Thompson: they were pioneers, invented C, Plan9 and all the stuff we love
but now they work in Google (afaik).

Were they hacker?

I can't say if they were or they were just great engineers, but for sure they now align 
with Google interests and approve its business model based on surveillance capitalism.


On the other hand, RMS, Terry A. Davis or Phineas Fisher, Ola Bini are all very 
politically aware hackers, each in his own way.


Sure, since ever, Power system try to get control of hackers.
Sometime they manage to jail us. Sometime we escape. [1]


Giacomo

[1] http://www.tesio.it/2020/09/03/not_all_hackers_are_americans.html

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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-27 16:11   ` ori
@ 2022-01-27 22:45     ` hiro
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2022-01-27 22:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> It's important to discuss politics.
>
> Elsewhere.

Since everything is political, it has to be discussed everywhere. At
least until everybody gets tired and resumes their non-political
boring everyday stupors.

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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation:
  2022-01-25  7:23       ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
                           ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2022-01-25  8:58         ` hiro
@ 2022-01-28 21:18         ` adr
  2022-01-28 21:37           ` hiro
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 52+ messages in thread
From: adr @ 2022-01-28 21:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

ori wrote:
> All too often, the only post with technical content
> is the first post in a thread.  The technical content
> is drowned in the bullshit.
>
> As a result, help is given off-list if it's given at
> all.  It protects the questioner from the deluge of
> noise, but hides any debugging steps from anyone who
> could learn from them.

This is just surreal.

The _questioner_ used the list to denounce politically another
member (well, I don't think nemo is here anymore), but instead of
a warning by the administrator it gets a pat on the back by other
members. Ah! and the bullshit is in the ones who got outraged.

Imagine I post that you are a fascist and that because of that we
need another git client. I'm sure the same people that have been
trolling in this thread would be defending you.

The only explanation I see here is a tribal one.

I don't like that.

I'll keep myself out of it, I've only made a fool of myself.

PS. If you want to stop a discussion, don't put more fire on it.
You are not the moderator, people don't like being told to shut up
by another member. Russ said us to shut up and look at us...

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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation:
  2022-01-28 21:18         ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation: adr
@ 2022-01-28 21:37           ` hiro
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2022-01-28 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Imagine I post that you are a fascist and that because of that we
> need another git client. I'm sure the same people that have been
> trolling in this thread would be defending you.

No need to imagine, as this has already happened.
No big deal, as the mob (on twitter/hitlernews/etc.) calmed down again
soon after.
4chan is probably real mad  and avoids 9front which now must seem like
a one in a kind jewish conspiracist operating system. I think it's
funny after all, and the statements made, the resolution, offended
just the right people.

> The only explanation I see here is a tribal one.

explanation for what?

> I don't like that.

Of course, tribal behaviors should be below us all. We're gonna harm
only your soul, not your body.

> I'll keep myself out of it, I've only made a fool of myself.

no need for such compensation, all people who responded to this thread
share the same kind of blame, if there has to be any at all.

> PS. If you want to stop a discussion, don't put more fire on it.
> You are not the moderator, people don't like being told to shut up
> by another member. Russ said us to shut up and look at us...

I think Russ plainly followed his responsibility as a human to remind
us there are basic rules of respect. Should this urge anyway weigh
more than an admin's word? Hell yeah.

So be better next time everybody. Be excellent, or however they call it.

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* Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
  2022-01-27 10:24   ` Giacomo Tesio
@ 2022-01-30  2:56     ` raingloom
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 52+ messages in thread
From: raingloom @ 2022-01-30  2:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Giacomo Tesio; +Cc: 9fans, mycroftiv 9gridchan

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:24:36 +0000
Giacomo Tesio <giacomo@tesio.it> wrote:

> Hi raingloom, mycroftiv and 9fans,
> 
> As you might know I'm pretty heretic in Plan 9 (as much that my for
> is called Jehanne) and I'm also very sympathetic with SJW victims,
> mostly because SJW basically try to impose worldwide a US-workplace
> ethos that is compatible with US-styled corporate management.
> 
> More often than not, they are in good faith.
> But ultimately they become tools of US colonialism, spreading their
> cultural hegemony. The trick is basically: convince everybody that
> they have your problems (eg, systemic racism, lgtqmi+ phobics, gender
> bias and so on) so that they will accept your corporate-friendly
> solutions (eg CoCs...)
> 
> In Europe being inclusive doesn't mean to be hypocrital, and that's
> why I'd really like to know what "sin" Nemo did to cause all this
> debate.
> 
> More often than not, SJW raise their swords after fictional issues
> that amount to nothing and could be basically settled with a honest
> conversation between openminded adults.
> 
> More often than not, what a SJW consider outragous and evil, is said
> in a completely different cultural context and environment, so much
> that they simply can't (or don't care to) interpret it as intended
> and understood in that context.
> 
> Finally, more often than not, SJW inclusiveness stops before weird
> people, (like hackers often are) that do NOT belong to the
> demographic groups that populate US's remorse, like blacks, women and
> so on.
> 
> Not to mention that often they are plain blind with the harm their
> corporations cause worldwide (think of the Facebook's SJW that
> obtained the removal of RMS from GCC Steering Committee).
> 
> On January 27, 2022 4:35:16 AM UTC, raingloom <raingloom@riseup.net>
> wrote:
> > 
> > Side note: technology is political. Deal with it. Software that
> > helps no one is of no use and who you choose to help with software
> > and count as a stakeholder (which includes but is not limited to
> > users) is an inherently political question. Ignoring that just
> > means that you prefer the status quo.  
> 
> I totally agree with this. [1]
> 
> Since neolithic, technology is a prosecution of politics by other
> means.
> 
> I agree so much that all my free software projects include a
> POLITICS.txt that explicitly declares the political goals they have.
> 
> 
> However, thanks God, not all politics is based on cancel culture, yet.
> Hackers do not cancel, we create.
> 
> If you feel the need to cancel Nemo's great influence over Plan 9,
> I'm not interested.
> 
> If you want to update his great books, eg to describe 9front, I'd
> really like to help. But I'd love to work WITH Nemo, not against him.
> 
> I might disagree with Nemo's view on general politics (I really do
> not know his takes on anything) but I think I might well work with
> him on a well defined political goal (say "document 9front internals
> so that anybody can more easily hack it").
> 
> Or maybe he doesn't like 9front and prefer to stick to
> plan9foundation's code, in which case I would't partecipate because I
> can't trust several of the founders [2].
> 
> 
> Sure, as you say, deciding who your project serves and how is a
> political choice. But it has nothing to do with who you cancel.
> 
> 
> Technology is Politics.
> 
> But Politics, to me, is to build bridges, not walls.
> Cancelling Nemo is not a political achievement.
> 
> Building on the great work he donated to this community, is.
> 
> 
> My 2 cents.
> 
> 
> 
> Giacomo
> 
> [1] http://www.tesio.it/2019/06/03/what-is-informatics.html
> 
> [2]
> http://www.tesio.it/2018/02/14/what-i-wish-i-knew-before-contributing-to-open-source.html

I'll just note that you addressed this to me and mycroftiv instead of
that guy who said that trans people must hide their identity on the
list. And I'm not from the US.

I'm offering help in reaching out to new demographics who currently do
not feel welcome in 9fans circles. That is the opposite of exclusion. I
actually don't care much about whatever nemo did or said, I just want
to see Plan 9 getting better docs and becoming more accessible to
people who aren't unix greybeards.
Feel free to ignore my rather milquetoast political reasoning behind my
motivation for helping.

If my help is not wanted, I have other libre projects to contribute to.

ps.: Nice work on Jehanne btw, I floated the GCC port announcement by
the Guix mailing list. Would be cool to see a package/config manager
inspired by it running on Plan 9 or Jehanne.

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end of thread, other threads:[~2022-01-30  2:58 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 52+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-01-24 11:12 [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation mycroftiv 9gridchan
2022-01-24 12:02 ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-24 12:13   ` hiro
2022-01-24 12:38     ` Duke Normandin
2022-01-24 14:42       ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2022-01-24 16:43         ` Duke Normandin
2022-01-24 17:40       ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
2022-01-24 17:49         ` Duke Normandin
2022-01-24 17:53           ` Pablo Tesari
2022-01-24 17:56             ` Clout Tolstoy
2022-01-24 18:06               ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2022-01-24 18:06                 ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2022-01-24 17:55         ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
2022-01-24 18:02           ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
2022-01-24 18:07             ` Jeremy Jackins
2022-01-24 18:18               ` Lucas Francesco
2022-01-24 18:20             ` Keith Gibbs
2022-01-24 18:33               ` Re[2]: " Alexandr Babic
2022-01-24 18:46                 ` Eli Cohen
2022-01-24 18:47                 ` Keith Gibbs
2022-01-24 12:45 ` Steve Simon
2022-01-24 12:49   ` Federico Benavento
2022-01-24 12:56     ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-24 18:18 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy adr
2022-01-24 23:48   ` hiro
2022-01-25  0:30     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
2022-01-25  0:57       ` hiro
2022-01-25  4:31         ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-25  5:36     ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundationy Lucio De Re
2022-01-25  7:23       ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation adr
2022-01-25  7:26         ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-25  7:32         ` Keith Gibbs
2022-01-25  7:38           ` Alexandr Babic
2022-01-25  8:58         ` hiro
2022-01-25 12:26           ` Wes Kussmaul
2022-01-25 15:39             ` Clout Tolstoy
2022-01-25 18:17               ` hiro
2022-01-25 19:44                 ` Clout Tolstoy
2022-01-25 20:26                   ` [9fans] War And Peace Wes Kussmaul
2022-01-28 21:18         ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation: adr
2022-01-28 21:37           ` hiro
2022-01-24 20:58 ` [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation Marshall Conover
2022-01-24 21:12   ` Russ Cox
2022-01-27  4:35 ` raingloom
2022-01-27 10:24   ` Giacomo Tesio
2022-01-30  2:56     ` raingloom
2022-01-27 16:11   ` ori
2022-01-27 22:45     ` hiro
2022-01-27 21:02   ` hiro
2022-01-27 21:43     ` Wes Kussmaul
2022-01-27 21:48     ` ori
2022-01-27 22:09     ` Giacomo Tesio

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