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Mon, 13 May 2024 08:55:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from tlaronde@localhost) by cauchy.polynum.local (8.16.1/8.14.9/Submit) id 44D6td7p004945 for 9fans@9fans.net; Mon, 13 May 2024 08:55:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 13 May 2024 08:55:39 +0200 From: To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front) Message-ID: References: <7eb7bd48-c6c1-4649-8c7b-000df046fed1@posixcafe.org> <17155723490.63cF0a1BB.31755@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: [37.59.142.106] X-ClientProxiedBy: DAG7EX1.mxp4.local (172.16.2.13) To DAG1EX1.mxp4.local (172.16.2.1) X-Ovh-Tracer-GUID: e0e39934-aea9-4fba-aa97-93f1c5641d08 X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 13361898620865612567 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrvdegfedgudduudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtuggjihesthdtredttddtvdenucfhrhhomhepoehtlhgrrhhonhguvgeskhgvrhhgihhsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeuuddugfegvefhudehgefglefhgeduveefleffieekgfefteffgfekudetgeehteenucffohhmrghinhepkhgvrhhgihhsrdgtohhmpdhnuhhntgdqvghtqdhhihgtrdhfrhenucfkphepuddvjedrtddrtddruddpfeejrdehledrudegvddruddtiedpvddufedrgeegrddvgeegrdehleenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpeduvdejrddtrddtrddupdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepthhlrghrohhnuggvsehkvghrghhishdrtghomhdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepuddprhgtphhtthhopeelfhgrnhhsseelfhgrnhhsrdhnvghtpdfovfetjfhoshhtpehmohehvdelpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuth Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: d5604c22-10f5-11ef-9bc3-95e5e204178d Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UY2YxMjhmYTk1NWI4YWFmYy1NYTFlYjc4MDg4ZWI3MjZhZDcwMTM4?= =?UTF-8?B?OTFjPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Ma1eb78088eb726ad7013891c:1:FVitvSJDClwmM_4EOp927svSl7JobXFVGtqFKkiRir8 On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 11:01:59PM -0700, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote: > [...]=20 > One by one we're getting rid of the third-party software -- I > particularly look forward to the day we can finally ditch Ghostscript -- > but in the meantime these accusations of license violations are > misinformed and have no basis in reality. For the ghostscript thing, and for the record (noting that, in this area, I have put my code-money where my mouth is): I too want to get rid of Ghostscript. The path adopted is the TeX/METAFONT way with the following: - A PostScript interpreter can be, functionnally, divided in two parts: 1) a general purpose language allowing computation but aimed for images and supposed, finally, to produce primitive graphics directives (fixed results); 2) a rasterizer to produce a matricial image; - TeX is a general language, aimed at text formatting, emitting primitive graphics directives. It's the 1) part of PostScript; - METAFONT is a graphical language and a black/white rasterizer; meaning there is a already 2) with the rasterizing routines of METAFONT. John Hobby's MetaPost is the ability to have a graphical language, much more easy to use than PostScript, but emiting basic PostScript directives. =3D> So there are already almost all the pieces there to obtain 1+2 at least for obtaining the same result as *roff. What has still to be done: - TeX has been extended because LaTeX requires now primitives that are not in vanilla TeX. The extended TeX engine has been written: it's Prote, in kerTeX. Prote has to be extended to allow to use the newline as a prevision macro character so that, indeed, roff can be, like latex, simply a predigested set of macros with a TeX/Prote engine; - DVI has to be extended to add a primitive, present in *roff and not in it: spline; - TeX/Prote has to be extended to accept UTF-8 (without, in the engine proper, handling whatever local related thing: this has to be done at the macro set level, or as font instructions) and to handle a font as a directory of 256 glyphes chunks (this can be compatible with existing: the font is searched first as a directory---extension---; if not existing, as a file---present state, equivalent to the 0 chunk); - A DVI interpreter has then to be written using the METAFONT rasterizing routines to produce the end result. One important part in the above, is that with this scheme, one has not to take a position about roff vs. tex: underneath, there will be the TeX/Prote engine, but interpreting whatever roff macros set is given. One could perfectly continue to write troff-wise. As for fonts, there are still the Hershey's digitalized ones, having not only occidental glyphes, but oriental ones. Plus all the existing METAFONT ones. One possible extension concerning fonts, in the DVI rendering, would be an intermediate representation, \'a la Hershey: to convert curved primitives to linestrings, without rasterization, allowing a quite correct last time scaling with a very low resources impact for final rendering. All this, I plan to do some day. But I'm at the limit of thrashing at the moment. --=20 Thierry Laronde http://www.kergis.com/ http://kertex.kergis.com/ http://nunc-et-hic.fr/ Key fingerprint =3D 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tcf128fa955b8aafc-Ma1eb7= 8088eb726ad7013891c Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription