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Sat, 29 Jan 2022 03:56:41 -0800 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 06:56:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.1 Subject: Re: [9fans] building blocks speaking 9p Content-Language: en-US To: 9fans@9fans.net References: From: "Frank D. Engel, Jr." In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Exim-Id: a20edef9-bde2-e0c7-3a69-7f14f6ce3120 X-Bayes-Prob: 0.9999 (Score 4, tokens from: base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: No geolocation information available for 192.168.101.1 X-CanItPRO-Stream: base:default X-Canit-Stats-ID: 016MzV0kK - 81300dc0ca6e - 20220129 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.168.101.81 X-Originating-IP: 192.168.101.81 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9860221c-80fa-11ec-bbb5-db3ceaf91ddf Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYTRlNTg0YTM3M2IwNTU1My1NZjg1OWZkNjIxODI0ZmRhMDBkNWY1?= =?UTF-8?B?YzQzPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Mf859fd621824fda00d5f5c43:1:e6hP-e700MEoAbKKTpTQDEZx_fAdVqWlZVt9mq7qKNY Apparently Linux includes drivers for tunneling IP over a USB connection=20 (possibly to support mobile phones?=C2=A0 not sure...) Making host drivers compatible with these (if not already available) to=20 share an IP stack and creating the equivalent device-side support for=20 the "blocks" would allow 9P to be tunneled not only from these devices=20 but also from other existing solutions in a wider variety of ways, also=20 making it easier to connect those devices to Linux as there are ways to=20 talk 9P from there. That may open up some additional flexibility? On 1/29/22 4:16 AM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > I've been working on something along those lines for IoT management > and networking. Here's my laundry list of architectural and > implementation pieces: > > 1. authentication: (a) tie devices to owner/user (b) authenticate > users against third parties (via OIDC/SAML2, etc), (c) let the > authenticated user provide the credentials to authenticate and use > their devices via a namespace that follows an established convention > (e.g. /joe/iot/0/secret). > 2. device and capability discovery is a bootstrapping process, > starting with a namespace that describes the availability of devices > and features (analogous to '#c/drivers') > 3. namespace to discover how to present the data from a particular > source (e.g. a steam gauge widget would need to understand the > namespace exported by a pressure sensor) > 4. 9p libraries including fan-in, fan-out capability (i.e. mount, > 9pserve) for FreeRTOS, Mbed OS, ThreadX, Zephyr > 5. libraries to localize user=E2=86=94device 9p traffic, while keeping > authentication centralized (e.g. how @tailscale works) > > Initially IoT's would 9p-enable the SPI, I=C2=B2C, etc. sensors and > actuators, until standards and conventions are established. > > For hardware, targeting things like SAMD21 boards seem more > appropriate; they're cheap (e.g. Seeed XIAO). Even things like Nordic > nRF52840 boards are below $10 and include the hardware to establish > root-of-trust. > > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 2:58 PM Bakul Shah wrote: >> The idea: >> - make it very easy to create hardware gadgets by >> providing a firmware/hardware building block that >> talks 9p on the host interface side & interfaces >> with device specific hardware. >> >> - use a "universal" 9p driver on the host side that >> allows access to any such 9p device even from a shell. >> >> - provide a standard way to find out device capabilities. >> >> - together they provide a plug-and-play setup. >> >> Example: connect an LED and a current sensor to this >> 9p device, other necessary hardware, add a few config >> bits and plug this device kn]]into a host. Now you should >> be able to turn on/off the light or sense its state. >> >> Similarly you should be able to control a stepper motor >> servo, cameras, microphones, other actuators, sensors, >> IO etc. Eventually you should be able to snap together >> enough of these components to build larger assemblies >> such as a 3D printer. >> >> Another example: a "hub" to multiplex such downstream >> devices and make them available to a host. >> >> This will probably have to ride on USB first. A verilog >> implementation would be useful in an FPGA! >> >> Would this be a useful component? If such a thing were >> available, what would you want to build with it? >> >> Do you think 9p is the right protocol for this? >> >> Ideally >> - connect anything to anything >> - authenticated connections >> - drive the device through a shell script >> - no new low level drivers >> - self-identifying devices with help and command syntax >> - signicantly eases the task of creating new h/w devices. > ------------------------------------------ > 9fans: 9fans > Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-M79e= f31466316e414d50336d2 > Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-Mf859f= d621824fda00d5f5c43 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription