From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] revision control Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 03:19:59 +0100 From: uriel@cat-v.org In-Reply-To: <43D56F10.3010600@lanl.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Message-UUID: e4c70b92-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Dan Cross wrote: >> But, more to the point, snappy >> one-liners like the above just smack of elitism and don't convey any >> real information. Just because it's not the fashionable way to do >> something in the Plan 9 world doesn't mean it may not be necessary due >> to circumstances beyond an individual's control. > > yes, it's a plan 9 problem. "We don't have it, so it must not be good". That is presumptuous, to say the least, some of us have had to deal with that crap for way longer than it's healthy, and are still recovering (ditto for all the misinformed talk that always goes around about web browsers) I might not be the brightest person around, but I can smell shit when I have had to swim thru various Km of it. > Sometimes, it's true; not having a lot of stupid things is a plus on > Plan 9. Other times, however, we don't have things that we ought. Sorry, but I come from there, and I can tell you currently all VCS in Unix are _SHIT_, with the possible exceptions of Mercurial, Darcs and Git (in that order, mercurial is the only one I can use without being overwhelmed with nausea, and we use it for wmii and I plan to use it for kencc). And I still think Plan 9 doesn't need them, maybe it needs some small tools built around patch and yesterday/history, but even that has been demonstrated to not be a big problem for the development of Plan 9. Have you seen /n/sources/contrib/extra/changes? I'm sure patch(1) could be improved a lot, but it works well enough so far, and there are much more important things to do. > Subversion is very nice. You don't really need apache, andrey has set up > svn on xcpu.org without apache. I will quote viro: (http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0210.0/2508.html) | Damn you. That thread got me to download subversion source and read it - | mistake I won't repeat any time soon. I've spent several months wading | through fairly disgusting code - block device drivers are not pretty, | ditto for devfs. I had more than once found myself grabbing Lovecraft | to read something that would be less nightmare-inducing. But _THAT_ takes | the fscking cake - I don't _care_ what Larry (or anybody else for that | matter) does to people who had excreted that code. No, wait - I _do_ care. | I want video of the... event. | | I don't use BK, but you can be damn sure that I won't touch SVN. Ever. > i have no idea of how much work it is to port, except ... it's c++, I think. The design and implementation of Subversion should be taught in every engineering class, as the best example(except maybe Apache 2) of Second System Effect abomination. Quoting from a recent comparison of many versions control systems: "Subversion is out of the running. [...] it's massively overengineered and fragile, and it has as many sketchy entanglements as a submariner on a weekend's shore leave."[1] There are similar comments all over the net for anyone that bothers to minimally research the subject, or just go for the source, as viro did, but you will regret it. > mercurial might be easier. don't know. Mercurial is probably trivial to port, 7000 lines of Python without any other external dependencies. (Svn is around 150.000 of convoluted C, plus dependencies in about every braindamaged XML/threading/DB library you can dream of) If you want lunix, you know where to find it; I come from spending there a long time, and I'm certainly not going back, even if I have to be the last Plan 9 user on earth. And now I'm done with this thread, it's been discussed before, and it's a waste of time to go over it again, go dig the 9fans archives if you like. Paraphrasing 20h's question in #plan9: how many of you, asking for a VCS in this thread, use Plan 9 every day? uriel [1] http://www.serpentine.com/blog/software/mercurial.html