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Tue, 29 Dec 2020 11:14:42 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.1-61-gb52c239-fm-20201210.001-gb52c2396 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <152DF34E0A1AC6447419775BA4030B1F@musolino.id.au> References: <152DF34E0A1AC6447419775BA4030B1F@musolino.id.au> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:14:38 +0000 From: "Ethan Gardener" To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9Front / cwfs64x and hjfs storage Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 07237cb8-49f1-11eb-b877-8452ecb6ccb7 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYzk1MWEyMjRkZGU2ZGRlNS1NNTdjMzRiMTVlOTJlMjQ5ZGUzNmRi?= =?UTF-8?B?NzQ1Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M57c34b15e92e249de36db745:1:gpRzOlagXWBm3XWLoHVgLCZ3nRvzcUOxu93hRMDikhk On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, at 1:06 PM, Alex Musolino wrote: > > While it is not yet a concern, I am trying to figure something out > > that does not seem to be well documented in the man pages or the fqa > > about the file systems. >=20 > Parts of fs(4), fs(8), and fsconfig(8) can be applied to cwfs. The > syntax that Ethan talked about for concatenating WORM devices is > described in fsconfig(8). Only approximately. This page puts several paragraphs into describing synta= x specific to Ken Thompson's standalone fileserver which we no longer have.= CWFS is a port of this, so the syntax is similar, but the device specifica= tions are different. Looking at a real config will help make the transition= , along with some guesswork. There was something about adding option letter= s to the beginning of paths... I'm *really* not happy with the state of cwfs documentation and I'm not qua= lified to fix it. > > I am currently running a plan9front instance with cwfs64x (the whole > > "hjfs is experimental, you could loose your files" seemed to be a > > bit dangerous when I started everything) and I understand that it is > > a WORM file system.=C2=A0 My question is for the end game.=C2=A0 If the > > storage gets full with all of the diffs, is there a way for the > > oldest ones to roll off, or do you need to expand the storage or > > export them or ?=C2=A0 I come from the linux world where this is not a > > feature file system wise and worst case I would have lvm's that I > > could just grow or with repos I could cull the older diffs, if > > needed. >=20 > Cwfs doesn't know anything about diffs as such, it just keeps track of > dirty blocks and writes these out to the WORM partition when a dump is > requested. The plan 9 approach to storage is to just keep adding > capacity since the price of storage falls faster than you can use it > up. >=20 > I recently upgraded my home file server from an 80GB HDD to a 240GB > SSD and documented the process [1]. The WORM partition contained 25GB > and dates back to 2016-04-12. Now, maybe you'll generate much more > data than me over less time, but in this day and age of cheap > multi-terrabyte HDDs and hundred-gigabyte SSDs I think it's still > perfectly reasonable to just keep adding capacity as you need it. > [1] http://docs.a-b.xyz/migrating-cwfs.html Good link. Incidentally, I bought 2 720GB drives in January 2007 and partitioned them = as 500GB/remainder. (I always keep spare partitions.) I never even filled o= ne of those 500GB partitions in 10 years. ;) In my case, it would be well w= orth migrating rather than extending the space. > Another thing to consider is how much data you really need to be > sending to the WORM in the first place. Multimedia, for example, > might be better stored on a more convential file system since the lack > of content-based deduping in cwfs might result in these files being > dumped multiple times as they are moved around or have their metadata > edited. Even venti won't dedup in the latter case as it doesn't do > content-defined chunking. Yes. 9p lacks any sort of move command and moving is done by copying, so yo= u'll end up with multiple copies of these large unchanging files in the dum= p for no good reason. I'm not so sure about metadata because the dump is bl= ock-based, not file-based, but if the metadata is variable-length, changing= it will pollute any block-based WORM, dedup'd or not. It might seem more reasonable to keep such large, unchanging files on cwfs = "other", except "other" reacts badly to being accidentally filled. (Other i= s really just the cwfs cache partition code which also can't handle being f= illed due to some cache-specific practical issue.) It's better to use anoth= er filesystem entirely. I haven't heard of many problems with hjfs, but fil= esystems in general are the worst for unpleasant surprises. There is also d= ossrv (very heavily used and tested), extsrv (possibly not so much?), and k= fs (if we still have it). Kfs is a bit lightweight, but I had no problems u= sing it for root in a 9vx setup years ago. It may have smaller limits. Doss= rv supports fat32, so the file size limit is 2 or 4GB. > Plan 9 is really good at combining multiple filesystems from multiple > machines (running different operating systems!) together into a single > namespace. My music collection lives on an ext4 filesystem mirrored > across 2 drives (and backed up elsewhere) but can be easily accessed > from 9front using sshfs(4). I just run `9fs music` and the entire > collection appears under /n/music. Yes indeed! I haven't used sshfs myself, I used u9fs. (The needed updates t= o ssh only happened in recent years.) We have so many options for networked= filesystems. :) Anyway, it's recommended to use u9fs over ssh so there's p= robably no point to it, but I dug up the links anyway for nostalgic reasons. source http://9p.io/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/unix/u9fs/ man page: http://9p.io/magic/man2html/4/u9fs ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tc951a224dde6dde5-M57c34= b15e92e249de36db745 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription