From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob1.topicbox.com (tb-ob1.topicbox.com [64.147.108.173]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A141527395 for ; Wed, 15 May 2024 10:39:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438E725749 for ; Wed, 15 May 2024 04:39:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bounce.mM88437843e76a7fd59aff342c.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 41784305B50E; Wed, 15 May 2024 04:39:23 -0400 (EDT) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=none (no signatures found); dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=sirjofri.de; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de smtp.helo=sirjofri.de; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1715762363; bh=iaMDLOSbkMw9ugab j5UKSzYXcFVKQVMvow6kCSbn93k=; b=aDattyhMLm3c7Kpw6QcbQqO5o05cmjQ5 YqhDHq0UmMwyOCSFApf7JicNcXKvsCpRQXfSlPPPa2ygiffLS+kWTVFX9w3OZimt S5kCOYX3FgJ0acl6W2i/kSRvQ9OtFqZ6v9IRI8ERmH6oTzTFvHcjZ0AM1oJcoqk4 jEXvck3tTXI= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1715762363; b=Mr8/On16kWmvvO3tGZsErMxSoO7RKs/S/cvYPvAfgrYu3U97nG 0MuT1cBEl2y6S+SNTKZVhi2a97doI5g6IVm9Kx1E4tpe7E7eaZtrQ+/riyb/j4Z4 Q1GJmoETExyP+dd/SmQ1biAwWdNT/ZYvJh8IPaMlIN1Wmf4kuz6cC8b34= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=none (no signatures found); dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=sirjofri.de; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de smtp.helo=sirjofri.de; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (Insufficient authentication, DKIM required); dkim=none (no signatures found); dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=sirjofri.de; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=5.45.105.127 (sirjofri.de); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de smtp.helo=sirjofri.de; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=sirjofri.de policy.ptr=sirjofri.de; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=sirjofri.de policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: sirjofri.de); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=sirjofri.de policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: sirjofri.de); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h=date:from :to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t=1715762363; x=1715848763; bh=iaMDLOSbkMw9ugabj5UKSzYXcFVKQVMv ow6kCSbn93k=; b=qyf4RjRaMU+C+RB1+1Eedube1t2BkhgS/kbKmh6RC50GAmb1 BaDoPIFyEX/qvs9/xGqBgb2pl1pef7zhqEGPUGd11qs1xX/mB9PWQLPzpMyRaHFQ Iwb8AZi0qAyZausbl237JkTKKyhPl0VAEcuw/75ri6rnAW5oMKhZBE8ztTs= Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE4B305B0EA for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 15 May 2024 04:39:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 8313967F10A; Wed, 15 May 2024 04:39:12 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1715762352; b=KOhmdz7gxsJYITAkg9d5Ypblcx/OO255leCbhoUrff12MB7Z+/ U6m5WFti0g3fCWw4OnxOBERMbWrHGO6vAvKBSm61UUZJ6ZClivxxl4O6X5QFkARN TyCIUgGtX/fDZYCuNHwNAQIRHc78abK0Gh0sxIDJ9mpcdjQ+82eo5dZ97FtPThY1 haDKiBemt2jfHtrrsCqyBMIHIdU5R8LDJkd26xYnaVLPqau7/EcoxxKjQMovBm34 G76Oq8Py+z32B2NMqoUNuSWBBcrJUi2uUg/OjRz2Li/risOdp5LIEVhgVcgKQMTU CirmxeON8alkV8YNgNGiTcEUmgH6R2lgV8tw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= arcseal; t=1715762352; bh=chTM3meRPZDzvrbZXKr2S7K3mvShRpLoHP5Ayr nX4FE=; b=djFrUx51rGDwG1xSYLwWEsuSywX6Tw7UbaozfcMdPUbGZoIGmROMlp J4K5fy40gi2jsuUmCNWAzrvChVzsYlWemnEbPUShXVcS9zkv+4KYwUEHRFR6Y1qG KKYPK2NRHPTk3z7K+B6x/zFlRpWcKE86eob7KKmkjplFV32mlRLdzp5Srj84kyCO KUipWLueKAtFxo4fqh5LtS2Pei7NTTPdqFRDfOYo5tTwvqvg/njhGtfB8kTCdMUH 4m5BSKF5dlw9h/dXSrPnd2+nrVQ+YLct1eBYrLfpUYW6U3/bbW+wClBObwC/2t6v TjW7YqWm/fS038DpzakcwVeGOjjrIk2A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (Insufficient authentication, DKIM required); dkim=none (no signatures found); dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=sirjofri.de; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=5.45.105.127 (sirjofri.de); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de smtp.helo=sirjofri.de; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=sirjofri.de policy.ptr=sirjofri.de; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=sirjofri.de policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: sirjofri.de); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=sirjofri.de policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: sirjofri.de); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrvdegkedgtdehucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeffhffvkf gjfhfugggtgfesthejredttddtjeenucfhrhhomhepshhirhhjohhfrhhiuceoshhirhhj ohhfrhhiodhmlhdqlehfrghnshesshhirhhjohhfrhhirdguvgeqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg hrnhepfefhtdetudehffevueelfeegjedvgeefgedttdehleeuuddtheduhfefffeuleet necukfhppeehrdeghedruddthedruddvjedpleehrdeltddrvddujedrledunecuvehluh hsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthephedrgeehrddutdehrdduvdej pdhhvghlohepshhirhhjohhfrhhirdguvgdpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeoshhirhhjohhfrh hiodhmlhdqlehfrghnshesshhirhhjohhfrhhirdguvgeqpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedu pdhrtghpthhtohepoeelfhgrnhhsseelfhgrnhhsrdhnvghtqe X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (sirjofri.de: 5.45.105.127 is authorized to use 'sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'mx' matched)) receiver=tb-mx0.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de"; helo=sirjofri.de; client-ip=5.45.105.127 Received: from sirjofri.de (sirjofri.de [5.45.105.127]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 15 May 2024 04:39:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de) Received: from dummy.faircode.eu ([95.90.217.91]) by sirjofri.de; Wed May 15 10:38:55 +0200 2024 Date: Wed, 15 May 2024 10:38:53 +0200 (GMT+02:00) From: sirjofri To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2f1ad69b-1318-4230-a40f-48bbafab81f3@app.fastmail.com> References: <4FB3A3BB-1CFA-4BC7-9DC2-CC9138B8325C@gmail.com> <2f1ad69b-1318-4230-a40f-48bbafab81f3@app.fastmail.com> Subject: Re: Clarifying Lucio's Additional Requests [Was: Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9. ] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Correlation-ID: Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9d6d71d0-1296-11ef-9959-6886038c7b06 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UOWJmNDBlOTQ0OGM4NzhhYi1NODg0Mzc4NDNlNzZhN2ZkNTlhZmYz?= =?UTF-8?B?NDJjPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M88437843e76a7fd59aff342c:1:wBIqSmQnu2Oaq256BVJSOurUX2xqGtr-fCOXVVt0Dns Hey vic, There are a few different issues I see with your mails: First and most obvious, they sound like they're generated by some LLM (play= ing captain obvious here). People don't like to see this, it might be relat= ed to some language barrier. That impression is also supported by the conte= nt. Which leads to the second point: the content of your mails make me feel lik= e you feel the urge/need to help. While help is generally appreciated, it d= epends. If you can only help by organizing stuff then organizing "the one s= ingle plan 9 system" doesn't lead to anything because that doesn't exist. 9= legacy and 9front are both organized by their contributors, who all work fo= r free. No money, no demands, no big organization that tells them what to d= o. It would be better if you find another way to help, preferably one that = doesn't incorporate mails so long that nobody wants to read them with conte= nt that nobody wants to know. It is generally fine to share patches and also bug reports to the mailing l= ists (yes there's a separate 9front mailing list for 9front topics). For 9f= ront, there's even a section in the fqa about bug reports. Note that all bu= g reports suck in some way, and people who work on the systems do it for fr= ee. Also, not all apparent bugs are bugs, so keep using plan 9 systems unti= l you understand how it is supposed to work (or ask). In general, the people on our mailing lists know how to work with each othe= r. You'll occasionally see discussion about patches (especially on 9front),= as well as about other topics. There are also other channels of communicat= ion (irc, mostly). Be assured that people communicate with each other, as f= ar as they are willing to. I've never seen so much interaction between 9fro= nt and 9legacy as in the last few years. Other than that, your mails often enough just state the obvious. People rea= d between the lines to understand what the person means. This sometimes fai= ls to work, but that's just part of human communication. Your ability to su= mmarize a mailing list thread about three different topics into a list of 7= user story action points is not well perceived, which I can rotally unders= tand: it doesn't help anyone. My advice would be (not sure if it helps): Write your mails. Write them, don't send them. Read them again carefully an= d think about the people reading it. They most likely understand as much as= you, and they have all the track record of earlier discussions, so they ve= ry likely understand more than you. Things are as they are for a reason. No= t always for a good reason, but for a reason. After thinking about your mai= l and the recipient, you may revise/rewrite your mail or just throw it away. Last, we're not a company. People who do the work are the ones organizing. = Those people don't like to see strangers organizing their stuff without any= contribution. If you can write software, try to organize yourself and give= something back to the community. Hunt for bugs and fix them, or write tool= s that helps people, or improve the documentation. This should help the com= munity much more than top-level organization when there is no top-level. I hope this mail finds you well, please read it with some smile. I don't wa= nt to hurt anyone, and text can be rude sometimes. sirjofri ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T9bf40e9448c878ab-M88437= 843e76a7fd59aff342c Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription