From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob1.topicbox.com (tb-ob1.topicbox.com [64.147.108.173]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C2727687 for ; Fri, 17 May 2024 16:49:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (tb-mx1.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.61]) by tb-ob1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8389429E86 for ; Fri, 17 May 2024 10:49:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bounce.mMd02571b978d330f46eccf111.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 7E6CA148EA86; Fri, 17 May 2024 10:49:37 -0400 (EDT) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=posixcafe.org header.i=@posixcafe.org header.b=Brjy0QWS header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20200506 x-bits=1024; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=posixcafe.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moody@posixcafe.org smtp.helo=mail.posixcafe.org; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=message-id:date:mime-version:subject:to :references:from:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:list-help:list-id:list-post :list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1715957377; bh=MK6efZ9taDXpnyW4jKH3PznwMgt4jKAHpVXSZCqQmXg=; b=O I6+AF9El0Pa1bZ9pRJha9dkAYS/mFy0MUtDFSQf4iwzzuGRbZ3jffyKTj/oSIdvE zkjZftlglsVFEhgQ5kfvnDhpbWu7UpwtoG/9evldqWmmuJp6WxZWIUNLHEoXwBq4 BC/0EshMmgLTc7nc9dkJ1XXfxoe6KNW3vNlePgOsiM= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1715957377; b=DfPTXa4ySQUC0lNfY0CYjLiS/SQIWOIjHAdhw+KxUzxh4AUywN fUAidWR0mWiYHx31N1Xnlo0OvLydSQ/6g121Ju6khdnDfRDbWadJXHOUrEnnxCWd Y/Rs3kJAKtJ92PtI7U07r0ByTryqF0im+Xqw4sCxKQtG6sCoB7Ju0H9CM= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=posixcafe.org header.i=@posixcafe.org header.b=Brjy0QWS header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20200506 x-bits=1024; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=posixcafe.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moody@posixcafe.org smtp.helo=mail.posixcafe.org; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=posixcafe.org header.i=@posixcafe.org header.b=Brjy0QWS header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20200506 x-bits=1024; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=posixcafe.org; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=45.76.19.58 (mail.posixcafe.org); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moody@posixcafe.org smtp.helo=mail.posixcafe.org; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail.posixcafe.org policy.ptr=mail.posixcafe.org; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=posixcafe.org policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: mail.posixcafe.org); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=posixcafe.org policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: mail.posixcafe.org); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h=message-id :date:mime-version:subject:to:references:from:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t=1715957377; x=1716043777; bh=MK6efZ9taDXpnyW4jKH3PznwMgt4jKAH pVXSZCqQmXg=; b=ghTYHrMkZhapMvFriVNp16dx9Ibd2/yUwf/xOWHII7eaCVBl 5/Y02qQ0hDrpV8V7rbUprubr/B2r5crQSVUGlxkiqe+4IaT9WbBhiweHyPT/7AUo YXpH7CZr5NrGhoyYaFTo9m4F3DntzwQr3CaQP2csGnWSL3q3YSUaqrB5EoY= Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97FAF148E57E for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 17 May 2024 10:49:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from moody@posixcafe.org) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id A376CE44BCB; Fri, 17 May 2024 10:49:27 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1715957367; b=LF+dsDmCCo7ziJQdPePx5A4n3aqlxqA/42bYprYFVjNAdHrBXh EDCXtUZHCykq+bC4zo6xvpJXHf41PKaPDbht/jlJlPu3F411v8t/2oWjTFbzxkEx zDfWIUqKSx4W66CYu7kdRmV3rgCu2ic38YQZNBNGoIFsNf8Ee1Ixurbnrt0wO8Nu ADKTzdFkv/hvA/Me8fZFHeStKAEqO8wDQkRoIybaIMVQhmAT/+T+37TDl6A0wb5Y qa0ka6FNBX7ht7g+AoCekJWlgzU0OzLnoPSiZ6FEg8w4UOTvOcmTJAHtann5CslB aynGvoZTY04iBA0oF+QvD+Yzjz4oHaXcOhRQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=message-id:date:mime-version:subject:to :references:from:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=arcseal; t=1715957367; bh=bav9JLrJ NVvOkFrs8FD6FvVqixdevZEWp6VmDve33jU=; b=BjO21R8uQm+N6W6SoYM9lLZQ hyA8SclvX8iHo3rP2Hxz3bARgh6VXc/r/pwrsahESkbg14cchyTjqgin/JLHBa/V QOgvBPx5xS4NLxQ2iQlBYTyMqWeRwfsiKtEiCiQSCQnq8IAVrDWI2LiOXxRgb9/p 26YFaTXNPsTRqMcBeN7anAToSxHv658wM72kaMJFtbL8gVuIktJNcg4FQmSnE/KP CZnFypw2Ys3HK0cBveCmawLkwLyQbV5Ya8L4HD5pMB52HFlo92LATrSNbGsxCbHt pDZSXvBruAdepIU4ZI3xddlbchC0cNMEj1ecLqynzO0oD1szZfA59WWBZtS6yg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=posixcafe.org header.i=@posixcafe.org header.b=Brjy0QWS header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20200506 x-bits=1024; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=posixcafe.org; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=45.76.19.58 (mail.posixcafe.org); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=moody@posixcafe.org smtp.helo=mail.posixcafe.org; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail.posixcafe.org policy.ptr=mail.posixcafe.org; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=posixcafe.org policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: mail.posixcafe.org); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=posixcafe.org policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: mail.posixcafe.org); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrvdehfedgudeffecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdp uffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepkfffgg gfuffvfhfhjggtgfesthejredttddvjeenucfhrhhomheplfgrtghosgcuofhoohguhicu oehmohhougihsehpohhsihigtggrfhgvrdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedtud fhiefhhfekvdelhfevueevleefvddtheeuleffffeiuddtgeelhedvteethfenucffohhm rghinheplhhinhhkvgguihhnrdgtohhmpdhsthhorhhjshhhrghrvgdrihhopdhtohhpih gtsghogidrtghomhenucfkphepgeehrdejiedrudelrdehkedpvddtjedrgeehrdekvddr feeknecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthepgeehrdejie drudelrdehkedphhgvlhhopehmrghilhdrphhoshhigigtrghfvgdrohhrghdpmhgrihhl fhhrohhmpeeomhhoohguhiesphhoshhigigtrghfvgdrohhrgheqpdhnsggprhgtphhtth hopedupdhrtghpthhtohepoeelfhgrnhhsseelfhgrnhhsrdhnvghtqe X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (posixcafe.org: 45.76.19.58 is authorized to use 'moody@posixcafe.org' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'mx' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="moody@posixcafe.org"; helo=mail.posixcafe.org; client-ip=45.76.19.58 Received: from mail.posixcafe.org (mail.posixcafe.org [45.76.19.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 17 May 2024 10:49:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from moody@posixcafe.org) Received: from [192.168.168.200] ( [207.45.82.38]) by mail.posixcafe.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 2667a492 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 17 May 2024 09:49:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 09:49:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front) To: 9fans@9fans.net References: <54D1A99DA34F0410D3BAFBA5C9B4FD6E@migadu.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Jacob Moody In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: abb6e8e4-145c-11ef-83f6-fbdb40b50c8a Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UZTA1MWYyMzBmMjY1NmJiYi1NZDAyNTcxYjk3OGQzMzBmNDZlY2Nm?= =?UTF-8?B?MTExPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Md02571b978d330f46eccf111:1:92q4w9G5STGdA_LTGBbDeDp9xP3X-8_YWnCKZugZ5P4 Hit the enter key a bit early... This is directed at Vic, if that is not clear already. To everyone else who called me out for assuming malice on victor's part bec= ause he was "just trying to help", does this not make my claim more obvious now? This likewise is including AI bullshit, and= I suspect my claims about his other mails being LLM trash are also correct too. There was no apology owed and none sh= ould have been given. This is about the furthest thing from "helping" that there is. To be direct, I have found the misinformation about 9front on this list to = be at best highly incompetent and at worst actively malicious to spread misinformation. Is this really what our = resident "9front-haters" are going to rally behind? Like I respect that some people don't like us, that's fine. I get that some= people have some differences but AI generated misinformation is downright insulting. The demands that 9front do something or change thei= r behavior to match some noncontributor's opinion here is frankly also insulting our time. I've generally held respect for the people= here who have been around a lot longer, while I may disagree I will read and think about what is said here. However is this is the type = of behavior that is defended (and therefore encouraged) I am not interested at all. I'll be around on this list to argue against the misinformation campaigns, = it is clear that if we were to go away this type of misinformation would run rampant. I really expected better. - Moody On 5/17/24 09:14, Jacob Moody wrote: > https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/critical-analysis-9front-community-conflic= t-vester-thacker-htt3f/ >=20 > This linked-in article is frankly disgusting, I suggest you take this inc= orrect garbage down. >=20 >=20 > On 5/17/24 07:43, Samuel Reader via 9fans wrote: >> It is only a first draft, and it is not a finished product. I'll correct= the mistakes found.=20 >> >> Thank you for the kind feedback. >> >> >> >> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >> >> On Friday, May 17th, 2024 at 9:31 PM, qwx via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wr= ote: >> >>> On Fri May 17 13:33:21 +0200 2024, plan6@room3420.net wrote: >>> >>>> an other interesting reading : >>>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/critical-analysis-9front-community-conf= lict-vester-thacker-htt3f?trk=3Darticle-ssr-frontend-pulse_more-articles_re= lated-content-card >>> >>> >>> I'm appalled and frankly furious about this article. It's blatant >>> slander which can affect me in my professional career. I'm a phD >>> candidate and my work is based on Plan 9 and developed on 9front; I >>> was going to present it at iwp9 but could not once the venue was >>> changed as it rendered it incompatible with my time table. >>> >>> The article lacks references to many of its claims, and the remaining >>> ones directly contradict its points. The Register article is even >>> linked incorrectly. A superficial reader would not bother to try to >>> follow the links or find the article. For me this is clearly >>> malicious attention-seeking. >>> >>> Regarding the pdf posted earlier[1], almost all of it is factually >>> incorrect. As an example, there are no drivers for modern nvidia or >>> amd chips or bluetooth. Many of the "system calls" listed in the pdf >>> are not system calls (proccreate) or simply don't exit (vlongtime), >>> and so on. In addition, it is trivial to recreate the same content >>> with a query like the following: `Generate a detailed book-style >>> document called "Revitalizing Plan 9: integrating modern enhacements >>> into 9legacy" detailing all improvements introduced in 9front compared >>> to 9legacy'. See for yourself in an excerpt below my email. >>> >>> I don't understand what the goal here is. All this post and pdf >>> accomplish is spreading misinformation, promoting cancel culture, >>> fostering community division and discouraging collaboration with >>> 9front and even 9legacy, directly contradicting both Vic's claims and >>> that of those who have sided with him in the thread. At this point, >>> use of chatgpt in this thread is blatant and harmful. Please stop. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> qwx >>> >>> [1] https://link.storjshare.io/s/jx6tw46kfxskld45ussjek46ccpq/revitaliz= ing-project/RevitalizingPlan9.pdf >>> --- >>> >>> Revitalizing Plan 9: Integrating Modern Enhancements into 9legacy >>> Introduction >>> Plan 9 from Bell Labs has long been recognized for its innovative appro= ach to distributed computing. However, as hardware and software technologie= s advanced, the need for a more modernized version of Plan 9 became apparen= t. This need led to the development of 9front, a fork of Plan 9 that incorp= orates numerous enhancements and updates, surpassing 9legacy in several key= areas. This document details these improvements, offering a comprehensive = comparison of the advancements introduced in 9front over 9legacy. >>> >>> Chapter 1: Graphics and Video Drivers >>> Improved Graphics Hardware Support >>> One of the most significant areas of enhancement in 9front is its suppo= rt for modern graphics hardware. This includes: >>> >>> Support for Newer GPUs: 9front integrates drivers for the latest GPU mo= dels, ensuring compatibility with modern graphics cards from manufacturers = like NVIDIA and AMD. >>> Enhanced Frame Buffer Device: The frame buffer device driver has been o= ptimized for better performance, providing smoother graphics rendering and = faster display updates. >>> Broad Chipset Compatibility: 9front supports a wider range of graphics = chipsets, allowing it to run on diverse hardware configurations with improv= ed stability and performance. >>> Advanced Video Handling >>> 9front has made considerable strides in handling video output, particul= arly with high-resolution and multi-monitor setups. >>> >>> High-Resolution Display Support: Enhanced support for high-resolution d= isplays, including 4K monitors, ensures crisp and clear visuals. >>> Multi-Monitor Configurations: Improved multi-monitor support allows use= rs to extend their desktop across multiple screens seamlessly, enhancing pr= oductivity and usability. >>> >>> Chapter 2: Networking >>> [...] ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Te051f230f2656bbb-Md0257= 1b978d330f46eccf111 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription