* [9fans] plan 9 and lisp @ 2023-01-19 7:09 fig 2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela 2023-01-19 11:29 ` Edward Partenie 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: fig @ 2023-01-19 7:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 754 bytes --] i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme. they’re both the powerful synthesis of simple ideas. i don’t see any mention of it as it compares to 9, but they don’t seem incompatible. personally i think they compliment each other in nice ways. i don’t have any interest in emacs, i don’t even know what it is. nor clojure or any of that. i’m talking about lisp being able to manipulate the structure of the program with tools that are built into the language. learned about it today. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-Meaf9220ebe5882a4d7497280 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1254 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 7:09 [9fans] plan 9 and lisp fig @ 2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela 2023-01-19 15:28 ` ori 2023-01-19 15:57 ` mkf9 2023-01-19 11:29 ` Edward Partenie 1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-19 11:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme. Cat-v.org has given a nod to Scheme. Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9. A useful Scheme interpreter can be written in about 10k lines of clear C code. > they’re both the powerful synthesis of simple ideas. i don’t see any > mention of it as it compares to 9, but they don’t seem incompatible. > personally i think they compliment each other in nice ways. Plan 9 uses files as the organizing metaphor. Lisp uses objects. (Lispers don't care too much about organizing objects into class hierarchies; we care about them in the Smalltalk sense, "something you can call to do a job". Every function is an object in Lisp.) https://github.com/mntmn/interim is a hobby OS that tries to combine the two. I haven't looked at it in detail but the idea may be "too much of a good thing": the two metaphors cover some of the same ground, so there is redundancy between them. The Lisp instinct is to represent system services as objects, not files. > i don’t have any interest in emacs, i don’t even know what it is. nor > clojure or any of that. Emacs = A very imperfect Lisp machine emulator written in C. The code written for Emacs mostly deals with text editing, but the Lisp system is actually broad enough for general-purpose programming. Clojure = Java. That may be all 9fans want to know :-) > i’m talking about lisp being able to manipulate the structure of the > program with tools that are built into the language. Lisp tends to focus on macros and other S-expression transformations, i.e. metaprogramming at as a batch job (at compile time, etc.) Smalltalk focuses on reflection, i.e. metaprogramming at run time. Same idea, but Smalltalk is much more dynamic. Most Lisp systems can do a lot of runtime reflection but it's not customary to reach for it as the first tool of choice. This is more of a cultural matter than a technical issue, though culture determines which aspects of the implementations are the most polished and comprehensive. Scheme tends to be less dynamic than Lisp generally. This is also a matter of culture, not an intrinsic technical issue. Schemers constantly talk about efficiency. Almost all Lisp dialects use dynamic typing. Almost all Lisp implementations (of any dialect) support interactive development, and this is the normal way to write Lisp. Other languages known for metaprogramming: Forth, Rebol. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M686c85cafb595890bbb47f8d Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-19 15:28 ` ori 2023-01-19 18:26 ` Csepp 2023-01-19 15:57 ` mkf9 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: ori @ 2023-01-19 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Quoth Lassi Kortela <lassi@lassi.io>: > > i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme. > > Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9. > And more recently, Janet: https://git.sr.ht/~pixelherodev/janet ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M5a67c34ffb0272ba0a95b097 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 15:28 ` ori @ 2023-01-19 18:26 ` Csepp 2023-01-19 18:33 ` Jacob Moody 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Csepp @ 2023-01-19 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans; +Cc: ori ori@eigenstate.org writes: > Quoth Lassi Kortela <lassi@lassi.io>: >> > i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme. >> >> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9. >> > > And more recently, Janet: > > https://git.sr.ht/~pixelherodev/janet > In that vein, you can also use one of the Lua packages/ports with Fennel. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M865a5ed9d146a2835062a8a5 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 18:26 ` Csepp @ 2023-01-19 18:33 ` Jacob Moody 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Jacob Moody @ 2023-01-19 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On 1/19/23 11:26, Csepp wrote: > > ori@eigenstate.org writes: > >> Quoth Lassi Kortela <lassi@lassi.io>: >>>> i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme. >>> >>> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9. >>> >> >> And more recently, Janet: >> >> https://git.sr.ht/~pixelherodev/janet >> > > In that vein, you can also use one of the Lua packages/ports with Fennel. > Might also be worth mentioning here as well, but I did some work to get a variant of clojure written in go running under 9front. As far as I know it should still work. https://github.com/candid82/joker ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M11a31c36f061c0d668f9f4be Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela 2023-01-19 15:28 ` ori @ 2023-01-19 15:57 ` mkf9 2023-01-19 15:47 ` Bakul Shah 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: mkf9 @ 2023-01-19 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Lassi Kortela wrote: > Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9. and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9, https://github.com/bakul/s9fes. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M8e6f301616f2c99598d95055 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 15:57 ` mkf9 @ 2023-01-19 15:47 ` Bakul Shah 2023-01-19 16:01 ` Dan Cross 2023-01-19 17:07 ` Skip Tavakkolian 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-19 15:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:57 AM, mkf9 <mkf9@riseup.net> wrote: > > Lassi Kortela wrote: >> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9. > and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9, > https://github.com/bakul/s9fes. Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original port with some help from me. He didn't want to maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9. Speaking of little languages.... Nils also ported his klong array programming language to plan9 & has a book on it! Slightly more verbose than k (roughly k3 from kx.com) Then there is https://github.com/ktye/i which supports a dialect of k. Not sure which, probably k6 or k7. And there is minimal help in the form of readme.txt but it compiles & runs on 9front: % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/i % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/wg % cd i % go build '-buildvcs=false' % ./k ktye/k !10 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 +\!10 0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45 d:`a`b`c!(1 2;3 4;5 6) d `a|1 2 `b|3 4 `c|5 6 +d a b c ----- 1 3 5 2 4 6 \\ There is of course Rob Pike's ivy. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-Ma405fc042ed723067725c40e Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 15:47 ` Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-19 16:01 ` Dan Cross 2023-01-19 16:13 ` Bakul Shah 2023-01-19 17:07 ` Skip Tavakkolian 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2023-01-19 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 10:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote: >[snip] > Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original > port with some help from me. He didn't want to > maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am > maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but > AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9. I thought that Ozan Yigit had done a small scheme that ran on plan9 at one point, but I can't find a pointer to it on his page at York at the moment. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I definitely remember running a scheme repl under rio, which was actually quite pleasant. Someone (Russ?) had also ported mosml, which is also interesting to play around with. - Dan C. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M8a312f570b9303bd42f95aa2 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 16:01 ` Dan Cross @ 2023-01-19 16:13 ` Bakul Shah 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-19 16:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > On Jan 19, 2023, at 8:01 AM, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 10:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote: >> [snip] >> Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original >> port with some help from me. He didn't want to >> maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am >> maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but >> AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9. > > I thought that Ozan Yigit had done a small scheme that ran on plan9 at > one point, but I can't find a pointer to it on his page at York at the > moment. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I definitely remember running a > scheme repl under rio, which was actually quite pleasant. Someone > (Russ?) had also ported mosml, which is also interesting to play > around with. Ozan did Portable Scheme Interpreter (psi). I had it running on some BSD in mid '90s. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M6d073270593ca2d9516d06c5 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 15:47 ` Bakul Shah 2023-01-19 16:01 ` Dan Cross @ 2023-01-19 17:07 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2023-01-20 19:45 ` Bakul Shah 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2023-01-19 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Regarding Ivy, rsc has some fantastic example code in the form of solutions to the Advent of Code 2021 puzzles: https://www.youtube.com/@rscgolang/videos On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 7:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote: > > On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:57 AM, mkf9 <mkf9@riseup.net> wrote: > > > > Lassi Kortela wrote: > >> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9. > > and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9, > > https://github.com/bakul/s9fes. > > Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original > port with some help from me. He didn't want to > maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am > maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but > AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9. > > Speaking of little languages.... > Nils also ported his klong array programming language > to plan9 & has a book on it! Slightly more verbose > than k (roughly k3 from kx.com) > > Then there is https://github.com/ktye/i which supports > a dialect of k. Not sure which, probably k6 or k7. And > there is minimal help in the form of readme.txt but it > compiles & runs on 9front: > > % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/i > % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/wg > % cd i > % go build '-buildvcs=false' > % ./k > ktye/k > !10 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 > +\!10 > 0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45 > d:`a`b`c!(1 2;3 4;5 6) > d > `a|1 2 > `b|3 4 > `c|5 6 > +d > a b c > ----- > 1 3 5 > 2 4 6 > \\ > > There is of course Rob Pike's ivy. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-Mfc5857d5dc8b7c9e5c3f2194 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 17:07 ` Skip Tavakkolian @ 2023-01-20 19:45 ` Bakul Shah 2023-01-23 11:31 ` Nick LaForge 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-20 19:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2579 bytes --] Thanks! Nick Nickolov's k comes with solutions to ~150 AoC-{2015..2022} puzzles. All run when you make k! As an example, here is aoc/21/25.k (Game of Sea Cucumbers, which Russ vlogged about): #!../../k n:#'1*:\x:".>v"?0:"i/25" (l;d;r;u):n/'n!'/:(!n)+/:3(|1 -1*)\!2 /left down right up i:0;{i+:1;x:a[r]+x*~a:(1=x)>x l;(2*a d)+x*~a:(2=x)>x u}/,/x;i [Of course, the real fun is in solving these puzzles but it helps to know what others do!] Unfortunately no plan9 port as it relies on mmap. https://codeberg.org/ngn/k https://xpqz.github.io/kbook/Introduction.html https://github.com/razetime/ngn-k-tutorial It is also one of the fastest (~0.5 sec to generate and add a billion numbers on a Ryzen 2700). > On Jan 19, 2023, at 9:07 AM, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote: > > Regarding Ivy, rsc has some fantastic example code in the form of > solutions to the Advent of Code 2021 puzzles: > https://www.youtube.com/@rscgolang/videos > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 7:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote: >> >> On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:57 AM, mkf9 <mkf9@riseup.net> wrote: >>> >>> Lassi Kortela wrote: >>>> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9. >>> and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9, >>> https://github.com/bakul/s9fes. >> >> Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original >> port with some help from me. He didn't want to >> maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am >> maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but >> AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9. >> >> Speaking of little languages.... >> Nils also ported his klong array programming language >> to plan9 & has a book on it! Slightly more verbose >> than k (roughly k3 from kx.com) >> >> Then there is https://github.com/ktye/i which supports >> a dialect of k. Not sure which, probably k6 or k7. And >> there is minimal help in the form of readme.txt but it >> compiles & runs on 9front: >> >> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/i >> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/wg >> % cd i >> % go build '-buildvcs=false' >> % ./k >> ktye/k >> !10 >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >> +\!10 >> 0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45 >> d:`a`b`c!(1 2;3 4;5 6) >> d >> `a|1 2 >> `b|3 4 >> `c|5 6 >> +d >> a b c >> ----- >> 1 3 5 >> 2 4 6 >> \\ >> >> There is of course Rob Pike's ivy. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M28a9059decf39a3bacc5e4c6 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4477 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-20 19:45 ` Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-23 11:31 ` Nick LaForge 2023-01-23 11:45 ` Lassi Kortela 2023-01-25 22:59 ` Bakul Shah 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Nick LaForge @ 2023-01-23 11:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3201 bytes --] Not Plan 9, but lately I've been working in Chicken, which is a lovely pragmatic Scheme for *nix: https://www.call-cc.org/ . Perhaps I should give s9fes a shot as well! Nick On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:47 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote: > Thanks! > > Nick Nickolov's k comes with solutions to ~150 AoC-{2015..2022} puzzles. > All run when you make k! As an example, here is aoc/21/25.k (Game of Sea > Cucumbers, which Russ vlogged about): > > #!../../k > n:#'1*:\x:".>v"?0:"i/25" > (l;d;r;u):n/'n!'/:(!n)+/:3(|1 -1*)\!2 /left down right up > i:0;{i+:1;x:a[r]+x*~a:(1=x)>x l;(2*a d)+x*~a:(2=x)>x u}/,/x;i > > [Of course, the real fun is in solving these puzzles but it helps to know > what others do!] > Unfortunately no plan9 port as it relies on mmap. > > https://codeberg.org/ngn/k > https://xpqz.github.io/kbook/Introduction.html > https://github.com/razetime/ngn-k-tutorial > > It is also one of the fastest (~0.5 sec to generate and add a billion > numbers on a Ryzen 2700). > > On Jan 19, 2023, at 9:07 AM, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Regarding Ivy, rsc has some fantastic example code in the form of > solutions to the Advent of Code 2021 puzzles: > https://www.youtube.com/@rscgolang/videos > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 7:48 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote: > > > On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:57 AM, mkf9 <mkf9@riseup.net> wrote: > > > Lassi Kortela wrote: > > Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9. > > and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9, > https://github.com/bakul/s9fes. > > > Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original > port with some help from me. He didn't want to > maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am > maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but > AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9. > > Speaking of little languages.... > Nils also ported his klong array programming language > to plan9 & has a book on it! Slightly more verbose > than k (roughly k3 from kx.com) > > Then there is https://github.com/ktye/i which supports > a dialect of k. Not sure which, probably k6 or k7. And > there is minimal help in the form of readme.txt but it > compiles & runs on 9front: > > % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/i > % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/wg > % cd i > % go build '-buildvcs=false' > % ./k > ktye/k > !10 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 > +\!10 > 0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45 > d:`a`b`c!(1 2;3 4;5 6) > d > `a|1 2 > `b|3 4 > `c|5 6 > +d > a b c > ----- > 1 3 5 > 2 4 6 > \\ > > There is of course Rob Pike's ivy. > > *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M28a9059decf39a3bacc5e4c6> ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-Mef1c930d3d165e97d956eb29 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5469 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-23 11:31 ` Nick LaForge @ 2023-01-23 11:45 ` Lassi Kortela 2023-01-25 14:12 ` Ahmed Khaled 2023-01-25 22:59 ` Bakul Shah 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-23 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Not Plan 9, but lately I've been working in Chicken, which is a lovely > pragmatic Scheme for *nix: https://www.call-cc.org/ . Perhaps I should > give s9fes a shot as well! Chicken and Gambit are the most portable "big" Scheme implementations. Both come with a Scheme->C compiler and a separate Scheme interpreter. With luck, it's possible to port them to Plan 9 with modest effort. People have built recent versions of Chicken with compilers smaller than GCC and Clang (it was probably tcc). Gambit should be able to target ANSI C. Both implementations use "green threads". s9fes and Chibi-Scheme are featherweight by comparison, as is TinyScheme. All probably easy to port to Plan 9. s7 is another small interpreter that ships in one .c file and is actively maintained. Possibly also easy to port. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M4bf34da27c83338ce49e8014 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-23 11:45 ` Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-25 14:12 ` Ahmed Khaled 2023-01-26 19:34 ` Skip Tavakkolian 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Ahmed Khaled @ 2023-01-25 14:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Mon, Jan 23 2023 at 01:45:08 PM +0200, Lassi Kortela <lassi@lassi.io> wrote: > Chibi-Scheme are featherweight >With luck, it's possible to port them to Plan 9 with modest effort. I'm a beginner programmer who didn't get his hand dirty with coding. but I'm willing. Do you recommend it as first step. I know C programming, I did read some of acme code for fun, and rob pike Ivy too. I def know what scheme and lisp is. I like the idea behind Data is code and code could be data. but I didn't do anything useful yet. sadly I know a little about OS, bytecode, and VM. if it's a good beginning, where can I start to know what makes a program run on *nix and not on Plan9 and so on. Or it's not a good first step ? I really wanna get over this step ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-Meb0f9650b4d109607268d669 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-25 14:12 ` Ahmed Khaled @ 2023-01-26 19:34 ` Skip Tavakkolian 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2023-01-26 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans It's hard to give a useful answer without knowing how much theory and practice someone has. As you already know, reading good code and emulating the structure and style of good programs is a good practice. I find that implementing simple versions of tools/protocols/languages/etc. is very good practice for learning a subject or a language. I find that the language I use will constrain my thinking, and try to use one that fits the problem; but sometimes that decision is made for me because there is a lot of momentum -- investment in tools, code and knowhow (e.g. C for OS, Python for ML, etc.). As for coding on Plan 9, generally for me, understanding how to architect the namespace to minimize the code required to accomplish a task is the key. There are several good rc examples that do things that on other OS require a lot of specialized code & libraries. On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 6:14 AM Ahmed Khaled <xxzeroxxah@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 23 2023 at 01:45:08 PM +0200, Lassi Kortela > <lassi@lassi.io> wrote: > > Chibi-Scheme are featherweight > >With luck, it's possible to port them to Plan 9 with modest effort. > > I'm a beginner programmer who didn't get his hand dirty with coding. > but I'm willing. > > Do you recommend it as first step. I know C programming, I did read > some of acme code for fun, and rob pike Ivy too. I def know what scheme > and lisp is. I like the idea behind Data is code and code could be > data. but I didn't do anything useful yet. sadly I know a little about > OS, bytecode, and VM. > > if it's a good beginning, where can I start to know what makes a > program run on *nix and not on Plan9 and so on. > > Or it's not a good first step ? > I really wanna get over this step > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M008f1b3423ff88bfb3138ff1 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-23 11:31 ` Nick LaForge 2023-01-23 11:45 ` Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-25 22:59 ` Bakul Shah 2023-01-26 7:18 ` Lassi Kortela 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-25 22:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/html, Size: 6279 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-25 22:59 ` Bakul Shah @ 2023-01-26 7:18 ` Lassi Kortela 2023-01-26 18:18 ` Tony Mendoza 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-26 7:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans, Bakul Shah > While creating a scheme interpreter is relatively easy, what is > missing is an industrial strength scheme “with batteries included” (Go > is a good example of this). And no, IMHO Racket is not it. Gauche is the Scheme with the most "batteries included". ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M9a8d928ebbf43b60fe21a27a Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-26 7:18 ` Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-26 18:18 ` Tony Mendoza 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Tony Mendoza @ 2023-01-26 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans, Bakul Shah [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/html, Size: 1997 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp 2023-01-19 7:09 [9fans] plan 9 and lisp fig 2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela @ 2023-01-19 11:29 ` Edward Partenie 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Edward Partenie @ 2023-01-19 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1359 bytes --] I love it for the same reasons. Small set of small but powerful and far-reaching abstractions, which all compose well together. That’s good design! On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 at 9:09 AM fig <type9freak@gmail.com> wrote: > i’m wondering what 9fans think about lisp, specifically scheme. they’re > both the powerful synthesis of simple ideas. i don’t see any mention of it > as it compares to 9, but they don’t seem incompatible. personally i think > they compliment each other in nice ways. > > i don’t have any interest in emacs, i don’t even know what it is. nor > clojure or any of that. i’m talking about lisp being able to manipulate the > structure of the program with tools that are built into the language. > learned about it today. > *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-Meaf9220ebe5882a4d7497280> > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-M1c93c4e6b57431f2f3298bab Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1750 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-01-26 19:34 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2023-01-19 7:09 [9fans] plan 9 and lisp fig 2023-01-19 11:22 ` Lassi Kortela 2023-01-19 15:28 ` ori 2023-01-19 18:26 ` Csepp 2023-01-19 18:33 ` Jacob Moody 2023-01-19 15:57 ` mkf9 2023-01-19 15:47 ` Bakul Shah 2023-01-19 16:01 ` Dan Cross 2023-01-19 16:13 ` Bakul Shah 2023-01-19 17:07 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2023-01-20 19:45 ` Bakul Shah 2023-01-23 11:31 ` Nick LaForge 2023-01-23 11:45 ` Lassi Kortela 2023-01-25 14:12 ` Ahmed Khaled 2023-01-26 19:34 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2023-01-25 22:59 ` Bakul Shah 2023-01-26 7:18 ` Lassi Kortela 2023-01-26 18:18 ` Tony Mendoza 2023-01-19 11:29 ` Edward Partenie
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