From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: advantages of limbo From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <200403020907.i2297HpN071781@adat.davidashen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:04:46 +0200 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 0c15ec3a-eacd-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 >> > Right now, Java and limbo are in the same position of external >> > tools artificially brought in. >> > >> I'm not the only one to believe that this is intentional, touted as an >> advantage in both instances. Or do you use the GNU Java compiler for >> your development (don't shoot me, I know precious little about it)? > > No, I don't think it is an advantage, as it is a feature of > many other languages as well. GNU Java compiler does not make > any difference. I don't mean compiling limbo into object code. > I mean making *VM a part of the system. I want it to > be loaded once and retain state. I want it to be a service, > not an application. > Abstracting the language from the operating system is critical to portability. And portability has yet to be knocked (the way object-oriented paradigm and multithreading have been) as a bad thing. As for running the VM as a service, you have to choose between the namespace being something the VM inherits or something the VM manipulates. Where the namespace is the most critical resources in the Plan 9 environment and is largely what sets Inferno apart from the neutral environment the Java VM supplies (and, in my opinion, unsuccessfully attempts to enhance with crippling security "features"). It seems to me that on this forum the consensus is that the ability to manipulate the namespace is something special Plan 9 and Inferno do and none of us would consider sacrificing it without just cause. The Inferno environment itself may not be perfect, but access to the sources allows one to configure it to one's tastes. The same is never going to apply to the Java VM because it always depends on the underlying platform. Now, perhaps I ought to ask you to explain why you'd prefer the Inferno VM to be different from its present form and how you'd prefer it to be or, to be nasty, what's stopping you from shaping it to your requirements. ++L