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From: "Ethan Gardener" <eekee57@fastmail.fm>
To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] OAuth2 in factotum
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 13:10:35 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <d5508fed-8029-4990-937a-72e9e8ff85a3@www.fastmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <39394E49-16F0-4556-9ACE-FA0A03DE59C4@pixelheresy.com>

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On Wed, Aug 18, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Keith Gibbs wrote:
> 
> And tools die or are replaced over time.  8 1⁄2 was the standard in Plan 9, but due to it’s limitations and quirks, a new one was written from scratch. Now we, 30 years later, are arguing that every line of code handed down from our honoured and sainted forebears is gospel truth? Really? 

Oh dear! This old argument is getting heated again? I don't miss the old flame wars.  But I think the old wars had a somewhat different motive.  Some people argued furiously for the "One True Plan 9" and against forks, but as soon as the last Plan 9 maintainer left the remains of Bell Labs, most of them just stopped posting.  (So did some nicer people.)  They were evidently arguing for a maintained system, but they also seemed to be opposed to almost all change.  Perhaps they were opposed to all change which didn't suit themselves, but the more I recall, the less rational these people seem to be.  Sometimes, they'd even be furious with someone for doing the very thing they'd told him to do.  "If you want it, do it yourself," so the person would put a lot of effort in to do it, and then they'd be furious with him.  The earliest such incident I know of goes back to the very people who developed Plan 9.  With this history, I don't particularly want to honor the original Plan 9 and would hate to see the wars rekindled.

All the same, there is a surprising practical consideration:

> I think what you are confusing is that since I (and many others, whether on the 9front side or no) want to see Plan 9 evolve and grow, that somehow that will ruin *your* Plan 9.

Unfortunately, this is a more difficult issue than you might think.  If someone is reliant on a particular fork and doesn't have the time, energy, or skills to make alterations as needed, they can be hurt by changes, even surprisingly small changes.  Changing Rio's scrolling behaviour might be trivial, but at a time when I was heavily dependent on a particular scrolling behaviour, 9front changed it and I had no free time or energy to even think about how to change it back.  I switched to an older version of Rio, but then I missed a different fix 9front had made.

The more I think about it, the more I think I'd like 9legacy's approach of patches over a relatively static system, but I haven't actually tried it and I certainly wouldn't want to limit anyone else's choices.
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  reply	other threads:[~2021-08-18 12:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-16 11:15 Demetrius Iatrakis
2021-08-17  3:48 ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-17  7:47   ` Keith Gibbs
2021-08-18  3:55     ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-18  7:02       ` [9fans] Software philosophy Skip Tavakkolian
2021-08-18  7:19         ` hiro
2021-08-18 10:15           ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-18  9:46         ` Keith Gibbs
2021-08-18 10:13         ` vic.thacker
2021-08-18 11:34           ` Keith Gibbs
2021-08-18 11:47             ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-18 23:44             ` hiro
2021-08-19  4:34               ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-19 10:44                 ` Keith Gibbs
2021-08-19 18:53                 ` Git & Conventional Browsers (Was Re: [9fans] Software philosophy) unobe
2021-08-19 19:00                   ` ori
2021-08-18 11:34           ` [9fans] Software philosophy Lucio De Re
2021-08-18 11:28         ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-18 12:02           ` Keith Gibbs
2021-08-18 19:33             ` leimy2k via 9fans
2021-08-18 20:09               ` David du Colombier
2021-08-18 22:00                 ` Eli Cohen
2021-08-19  7:08                   ` Keith Gibbs
2021-08-19  7:59                     ` sirjofri
2021-08-19  9:27                       ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-19  9:45                         ` hiro
2021-08-19  9:51                         ` hiro
2021-08-19 10:10                           ` sirjofri
2021-08-19 10:38                         ` Keith Gibbs
2021-08-19 11:45                           ` hiro
2021-08-19 12:43                             ` Eli Cohen
2021-08-19 19:58                               ` Aram Hăvărneanu
2021-08-19 10:56                         ` kvik
2021-08-19 11:33                           ` sirjofri
2021-08-19 20:44                           ` ori
2021-08-19  9:29                       ` hiro
2021-08-19  9:44                         ` sirjofri
2021-08-19  9:19                     ` hiro
2021-08-22  2:46                   ` kokamoto
2021-08-22  3:16                     ` Eli Cohen
2021-08-22  7:07                       ` [9fans] Drawterm GPU (was: Software philosophy) sirjofri
2021-08-22 10:04                         ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2021-08-22 11:49                           ` sirjofri
2021-08-22 12:24                             ` Chris McGee
2021-08-18  9:18       ` [9fans] OAuth2 in factotum Keith Gibbs
2021-08-18 12:10         ` Ethan Gardener [this message]
2021-08-18 15:23         ` Stuart Morrow
2021-08-18 16:58           ` Stuart Morrow
2021-08-18 17:06             ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-08-17 15:25   ` ori
2021-08-18  3:59     ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-18  4:20       ` ori
2021-08-18  4:42         ` Eli Cohen
2021-08-18  5:06         ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-17  4:13 ` ori
2021-08-17  5:43   ` Lucio De Re
2021-08-19  3:52 ` Kurt H Maier
2021-08-19  5:38 ` ori
2021-08-22 20:16 ` ori
2021-08-22 20:32   ` Demetrius Iatrakis
2021-08-22 20:38     ` ori
2021-08-22 20:36   ` ori

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