[9fans] Need help explaining mouse gone crazy: HP DY651A/M-U0013-O

[9fans] Need help explaining mouse gone crazy: HP DY651A/M-U0013-O

[cigar562hfsp952fans]

I have a couple of HP M-U0013-O USB optical mice which have recently
began generating phantom mouse clicks.  I'm at a complete loss for
figuring out what's going on, here.

Based on the recommended hardware list on the Plan 9 Wiki (back when it
was still live), I bought a Hewlett Packard DY651A USB optical mouse.
Knowing that everything eventually breaks, I actually ordered two of
them, so I would have one as a "critical spare" to swap-in when/if the
first mouse ever failed.  The mice which I received were actually model
M-U0013-O, not DY651A, but they appeared the same as the DY651A.  I had
been using the M-U0013-O regularly, for about 13 years, without any
problems, since I bought the pair of mice in 2011.

Then, just a couple of months ago, one of the M-U0013-O began generating
spurious button-1 clicks.  When I pressed down button-1, the mouse would
behave as if I was pressing and releasing button-1 in rapid succession.
It was kind of like the mouse somehow switched from semi-automatic to
full automatic fire.  :) But it didn't happen with buttons 2 or 3, just
button 1.  Since the mouse was more than a decade old, and button 1 is
used more than buttons 2 or 3, I figured some metal part (maybe a spring
or switch) had fatigued.  The malfunction appeared to be classic switch
bouncing, so I swapped out the first M-U0013-O for the "critical spare"
M-U0013-O.  To my amazement, the second M-U0013-O exhibited the same
exact behavior (phantom rapid-fire button-1 clicks) despite the fact
that it had been sitting, unused, in a box for 13 years.

The strange thing is how intermittent the malfunctions are.  Sometimes
button-1 works fine.  Other times, it acts like someone secretly slipped
an autoseer into the mouse.  It happens whether the mouse is connected
to a desktop or to a laptop.  It happens at home, and away from home.
It also happens when I use the laptop in a completely different town.
When there is RFI on a USB cable, the Linux kernel's USB driver will
often generate errors, but I wasn't receiving any of those error
messages.  There aren't any cell towers near my house.  There is a cell
site hidden in the steeple of a nearby church, but that's been there for
decades, and there's no way it could possibly affect my mouse when I'm
two towns away.  Although they are easily hidden, I'm not aware of any
5G antennae in the area which have gone up in the past couple of months.
Both my next-door neighbor and I are ham radio operators.  But, like the
cell site, that couldn't cause these problems when I'm out of town.  I
never carry a cell phone, smartwatch, or even any devices that use
Bluetooth.  The only wireless charger I use (for my toothbrush) sits at
home, next to the sink.  I've even checked the "spaceweather."  These
phantom clicks occur even when the spaceweather is clear: no solar
flares or geomagnetic storms.

Yes, I'm sure I'm using the mouse correctly, just the same as I have for
the past decade.  This is not user error!  I don't have parkinsons,
seizures, or a pacemaker.  I'm not sneezing while I click.  I'm not
shivering from cold or trembling in fear.  I'm quite certain I'm not
hallucinating the spurious clicks, either.  I'm just completely baffled.

The thought of "planned obsolesence" came to mind... both mice might
have been designed to fail after a certain period of time after their
manufacture.  But one of them went completely unused (and, thus, unworn)
that whole time.  Even if the failure were pre-programmed in firmware,
there's no way the spare mouse could possibly know what year it is,
because the USB HID protocol doesn't report that information to mice.
It's also highly unlikely that anyone could have sabotaged the mice.  I
keep tight physical control over my hardware and... more realistically,
why would anyone pull such a BIZARRE prank?  I have made no changes to
either hardware or software during the past couple of months, when the
strange behavior began.

Has anyone here experienced this problem with the HP DY651A or M-U0013-O
mice?  Since it's recommended "Plan 9" hardware, I figure someone else
here might have encountered the same problem.  Any idea what could be
causing these mice to hallucinate mouse clicks?

------------------------------------------
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Re: [9fans] Need help explaining mouse gone crazy: HP DY651A/M-U0013-O

[Clout Tolstoy]

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Have you tried the mice on another OS or install of plan9?

On Fri, Feb 28, 2025, 1:13 PM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org> wrote:

> I have a couple of HP M-U0013-O USB optical mice which have recently
> began generating phantom mouse clicks.  I'm at a complete loss for
> figuring out what's going on, here.
> 
> Based on the recommended hardware list on the Plan 9 Wiki (back when it
> was still live), I bought a Hewlett Packard DY651A USB optical mouse.
> Knowing that everything eventually breaks, I actually ordered two of
> them, so I would have one as a "critical spare" to swap-in when/if the
> first mouse ever failed.  The mice which I received were actually model
> M-U0013-O, not DY651A, but they appeared the same as the DY651A.  I had
> been using the M-U0013-O regularly, for about 13 years, without any
> problems, since I bought the pair of mice in 2011.
> 
> Then, just a couple of months ago, one of the M-U0013-O began generating
> spurious button-1 clicks.  When I pressed down button-1, the mouse would
> behave as if I was pressing and releasing button-1 in rapid succession.
> It was kind of like the mouse somehow switched from semi-automatic to
> full automatic fire.  :) But it didn't happen with buttons 2 or 3, just
> button 1.  Since the mouse was more than a decade old, and button 1 is
> used more than buttons 2 or 3, I figured some metal part (maybe a spring
> or switch) had fatigued.  The malfunction appeared to be classic switch
> bouncing, so I swapped out the first M-U0013-O for the "critical spare"
> M-U0013-O.  To my amazement, the second M-U0013-O exhibited the same
> exact behavior (phantom rapid-fire button-1 clicks) despite the fact
> that it had been sitting, unused, in a box for 13 years.
> 
> The strange thing is how intermittent the malfunctions are.  Sometimes
> button-1 works fine.  Other times, it acts like someone secretly slipped
> an autoseer into the mouse.  It happens whether the mouse is connected
> to a desktop or to a laptop.  It happens at home, and away from home.
> It also happens when I use the laptop in a completely different town.
> When there is RFI on a USB cable, the Linux kernel's USB driver will
> often generate errors, but I wasn't receiving any of those error
> messages.  There aren't any cell towers near my house.  There is a cell
> site hidden in the steeple of a nearby church, but that's been there for
> decades, and there's no way it could possibly affect my mouse when I'm
> two towns away.  Although they are easily hidden, I'm not aware of any
> 5G antennae in the area which have gone up in the past couple of months.
> Both my next-door neighbor and I are ham radio operators.  But, like the
> cell site, that couldn't cause these problems when I'm out of town.  I
> never carry a cell phone, smartwatch, or even any devices that use
> Bluetooth.  The only wireless charger I use (for my toothbrush) sits at
> home, next to the sink.  I've even checked the "spaceweather."  These
> phantom clicks occur even when the spaceweather is clear: no solar
> flares or geomagnetic storms.
> 
> Yes, I'm sure I'm using the mouse correctly, just the same as I have for
> the past decade.  This is not user error!  I don't have parkinsons,
> seizures, or a pacemaker.  I'm not sneezing while I click.  I'm not
> shivering from cold or trembling in fear.  I'm quite certain I'm not
> hallucinating the spurious clicks, either.  I'm just completely baffled.
> 
> The thought of "planned obsolesence" came to mind... both mice might
> have been designed to fail after a certain period of time after their
> manufacture.  But one of them went completely unused (and, thus, unworn)
> that whole time.  Even if the failure were pre-programmed in firmware,
> there's no way the spare mouse could possibly know what year it is,
> because the USB HID protocol doesn't report that information to mice.
> It's also highly unlikely that anyone could have sabotaged the mice.  I
> keep tight physical control over my hardware and... more realistically,
> why would anyone pull such a BIZARRE prank?  I have made no changes to
> either hardware or software during the past couple of months, when the
> strange behavior began.
> 
> Has anyone here experienced this problem with the HP DY651A or M-U0013-O
> mice?  Since it's recommended "Plan 9" hardware, I figure someone else
> here might have encountered the same problem.  Any idea what could be
> causing these mice to hallucinate mouse clicks?

------------------------------------------
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Re: [9fans] Need help explaining mouse gone crazy: HP DY651A/M-U0013-O

[Clout Tolstoy]

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Ah, sorry. Just reread your email and see you did try that.  If I were
concerned a change in code broke it, I would  look at change logs or `diff`
the code.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2025, 1:54 PM Clout Tolstoy <tolstoyclout@gmail.com> wrote:

> Have you tried the mice on another OS or install of plan9?
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2025, 1:13 PM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org> wrote:
>
>> I have a couple of HP M-U0013-O USB optical mice which have recently
>> began generating phantom mouse clicks.  I'm at a complete loss for
>> figuring out what's going on, here.
>> 
>> Based on the recommended hardware list on the Plan 9 Wiki (back when it
>> was still live), I bought a Hewlett Packard DY651A USB optical mouse.
>> Knowing that everything eventually breaks, I actually ordered two of
>> them, so I would have one as a "critical spare" to swap-in when/if the
>> first mouse ever failed.  The mice which I received were actually model
>> M-U0013-O, not DY651A, but they appeared the same as the DY651A.  I had
>> been using the M-U0013-O regularly, for about 13 years, without any
>> problems, since I bought the pair of mice in 2011.
>> 
>> Then, just a couple of months ago, one of the M-U0013-O began generating
>> spurious button-1 clicks.  When I pressed down button-1, the mouse would
>> behave as if I was pressing and releasing button-1 in rapid succession.
>> It was kind of like the mouse somehow switched from semi-automatic to
>> full automatic fire.  :) But it didn't happen with buttons 2 or 3, just
>> button 1.  Since the mouse was more than a decade old, and button 1 is
>> used more than buttons 2 or 3, I figured some metal part (maybe a spring
>> or switch) had fatigued.  The malfunction appeared to be classic switch
>> bouncing, so I swapped out the first M-U0013-O for the "critical spare"
>> M-U0013-O.  To my amazement, the second M-U0013-O exhibited the same
>> exact behavior (phantom rapid-fire button-1 clicks) despite the fact
>> that it had been sitting, unused, in a box for 13 years.
>> 
>> The strange thing is how intermittent the malfunctions are.  Sometimes
>> button-1 works fine.  Other times, it acts like someone secretly slipped
>> an autoseer into the mouse.  It happens whether the mouse is connected
>> to a desktop or to a laptop.  It happens at home, and away from home.
>> It also happens when I use the laptop in a completely different town.
>> When there is RFI on a USB cable, the Linux kernel's USB driver will
>> often generate errors, but I wasn't receiving any of those error
>> messages.  There aren't any cell towers near my house.  There is a cell
>> site hidden in the steeple of a nearby church, but that's been there for
>> decades, and there's no way it could possibly affect my mouse when I'm
>> two towns away.  Although they are easily hidden, I'm not aware of any
>> 5G antennae in the area which have gone up in the past couple of months.
>> Both my next-door neighbor and I are ham radio operators.  But, like the
>> cell site, that couldn't cause these problems when I'm out of town.  I
>> never carry a cell phone, smartwatch, or even any devices that use
>> Bluetooth.  The only wireless charger I use (for my toothbrush) sits at
>> home, next to the sink.  I've even checked the "spaceweather."  These
>> phantom clicks occur even when the spaceweather is clear: no solar
>> flares or geomagnetic storms.
>> 
>> Yes, I'm sure I'm using the mouse correctly, just the same as I have for
>> the past decade.  This is not user error!  I don't have parkinsons,
>> seizures, or a pacemaker.  I'm not sneezing while I click.  I'm not
>> shivering from cold or trembling in fear.  I'm quite certain I'm not
>> hallucinating the spurious clicks, either.  I'm just completely baffled.
>> 
>> The thought of "planned obsolesence" came to mind... both mice might
>> have been designed to fail after a certain period of time after their
>> manufacture.  But one of them went completely unused (and, thus, unworn)
>> that whole time.  Even if the failure were pre-programmed in firmware,
>> there's no way the spare mouse could possibly know what year it is,
>> because the USB HID protocol doesn't report that information to mice.
>> It's also highly unlikely that anyone could have sabotaged the mice.  I
>> keep tight physical control over my hardware and... more realistically,
>> why would anyone pull such a BIZARRE prank?  I have made no changes to
>> either hardware or software during the past couple of months, when the
>> strange behavior began.
>> 
>> Has anyone here experienced this problem with the HP DY651A or M-U0013-O
>> mice?  Since it's recommended "Plan 9" hardware, I figure someone else
>> here might have encountered the same problem.  Any idea what could be
>> causing these mice to hallucinate mouse clicks?

------------------------------------------
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Re: [9fans] Need help explaining mouse gone crazy: HP DY651A/M-U0013-O

[fgergo]

Earlier I noticed, when I intended to only click on my 3 button mouse,
during the click the mouse moved a bit inadvertently and
hardware+software processed these very small and inadvertent
movements.
If it's only acme, you might want to take a look:
https://groups.google.com/g/plan9port-dev/c/nLoLRXa2zlM/m/X1TH9ygJBgAJ
Note, this was in 2016 and for plan9port.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2025 at 10:13 PM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org> wrote:
> 
> I have a couple of HP M-U0013-O USB optical mice which have recently
> began generating phantom mouse clicks.  I'm at a complete loss for
> figuring out what's going on, here.
> 
> Based on the recommended hardware list on the Plan 9 Wiki (back when it
> was still live), I bought a Hewlett Packard DY651A USB optical mouse.
> Knowing that everything eventually breaks, I actually ordered two of
> them, so I would have one as a "critical spare" to swap-in when/if the
> first mouse ever failed.  The mice which I received were actually model
> M-U0013-O, not DY651A, but they appeared the same as the DY651A.  I had
> been using the M-U0013-O regularly, for about 13 years, without any
> problems, since I bought the pair of mice in 2011.
> 
> Then, just a couple of months ago, one of the M-U0013-O began generating
> spurious button-1 clicks.  When I pressed down button-1, the mouse would
> behave as if I was pressing and releasing button-1 in rapid succession.
> It was kind of like the mouse somehow switched from semi-automatic to
> full automatic fire.  :) But it didn't happen with buttons 2 or 3, just
> button 1.  Since the mouse was more than a decade old, and button 1 is
> used more than buttons 2 or 3, I figured some metal part (maybe a spring
> or switch) had fatigued.  The malfunction appeared to be classic switch
> bouncing, so I swapped out the first M-U0013-O for the "critical spare"
> M-U0013-O.  To my amazement, the second M-U0013-O exhibited the same
> exact behavior (phantom rapid-fire button-1 clicks) despite the fact
> that it had been sitting, unused, in a box for 13 years.
> 
> The strange thing is how intermittent the malfunctions are.  Sometimes
> button-1 works fine.  Other times, it acts like someone secretly slipped
> an autoseer into the mouse.  It happens whether the mouse is connected
> to a desktop or to a laptop.  It happens at home, and away from home.
> It also happens when I use the laptop in a completely different town.
> When there is RFI on a USB cable, the Linux kernel's USB driver will
> often generate errors, but I wasn't receiving any of those error
> messages.  There aren't any cell towers near my house.  There is a cell
> site hidden in the steeple of a nearby church, but that's been there for
> decades, and there's no way it could possibly affect my mouse when I'm
> two towns away.  Although they are easily hidden, I'm not aware of any
> 5G antennae in the area which have gone up in the past couple of months.
> Both my next-door neighbor and I are ham radio operators.  But, like the
> cell site, that couldn't cause these problems when I'm out of town.  I
> never carry a cell phone, smartwatch, or even any devices that use
> Bluetooth.  The only wireless charger I use (for my toothbrush) sits at
> home, next to the sink.  I've even checked the "spaceweather."  These
> phantom clicks occur even when the spaceweather is clear: no solar
> flares or geomagnetic storms.
> 
> Yes, I'm sure I'm using the mouse correctly, just the same as I have for
> the past decade.  This is not user error!  I don't have parkinsons,
> seizures, or a pacemaker.  I'm not sneezing while I click.  I'm not
> shivering from cold or trembling in fear.  I'm quite certain I'm not
> hallucinating the spurious clicks, either.  I'm just completely baffled.
> 
> The thought of "planned obsolesence" came to mind... both mice might
> have been designed to fail after a certain period of time after their
> manufacture.  But one of them went completely unused (and, thus, unworn)
> that whole time.  Even if the failure were pre-programmed in firmware,
> there's no way the spare mouse could possibly know what year it is,
> because the USB HID protocol doesn't report that information to mice.
> It's also highly unlikely that anyone could have sabotaged the mice.  I
> keep tight physical control over my hardware and... more realistically,
> why would anyone pull such a BIZARRE prank?  I have made no changes to
> either hardware or software during the past couple of months, when the
> strange behavior began.
> 
> Has anyone here experienced this problem with the HP DY651A or M-U0013-O
> mice?  Since it's recommended "Plan 9" hardware, I figure someone else
> here might have encountered the same problem.  Any idea what could be
> causing these mice to hallucinate mouse clicks?

------------------------------------------
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Re: [9fans] Need help explaining mouse gone crazy: HP DY651A/M-U0013-O

[Eli Cohen]

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some mice are known to have disabilities, but nusb was a major change from
usb. but what are the differences in compilers? there's a difference in
available system calls too

On Sun, Mar 2, 2025, 5:52 AM <fgergo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Earlier I noticed, when I intended to only click on my 3 button mouse,
> during the click the mouse moved a bit inadvertently and
> hardware+software processed these very small and inadvertent
> movements.
> If it's only acme, you might want to take a look:
> https://groups.google.com/g/plan9port-dev/c/nLoLRXa2zlM/m/X1TH9ygJBgAJ
> Note, this was in 2016 and for plan9port.
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2025 at 10:13 PM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > I have a couple of HP M-U0013-O USB optical mice which have recently
> > began generating phantom mouse clicks.  I'm at a complete loss for
> > figuring out what's going on, here.
> >
> > Based on the recommended hardware list on the Plan 9 Wiki (back when it
> > was still live), I bought a Hewlett Packard DY651A USB optical mouse.
> > Knowing that everything eventually breaks, I actually ordered two of
> > them, so I would have one as a "critical spare" to swap-in when/if the
> > first mouse ever failed.  The mice which I received were actually model
> > M-U0013-O, not DY651A, but they appeared the same as the DY651A.  I had
> > been using the M-U0013-O regularly, for about 13 years, without any
> > problems, since I bought the pair of mice in 2011.
> >
> > Then, just a couple of months ago, one of the M-U0013-O began generating
> > spurious button-1 clicks.  When I pressed down button-1, the mouse would
> > behave as if I was pressing and releasing button-1 in rapid succession.
> > It was kind of like the mouse somehow switched from semi-automatic to
> > full automatic fire.  :) But it didn't happen with buttons 2 or 3, just
> > button 1.  Since the mouse was more than a decade old, and button 1 is
> > used more than buttons 2 or 3, I figured some metal part (maybe a spring
> > or switch) had fatigued.  The malfunction appeared to be classic switch
> > bouncing, so I swapped out the first M-U0013-O for the "critical spare"
> > M-U0013-O.  To my amazement, the second M-U0013-O exhibited the same
> > exact behavior (phantom rapid-fire button-1 clicks) despite the fact
> > that it had been sitting, unused, in a box for 13 years.
> >
> > The strange thing is how intermittent the malfunctions are.  Sometimes
> > button-1 works fine.  Other times, it acts like someone secretly slipped
> > an autoseer into the mouse.  It happens whether the mouse is connected
> > to a desktop or to a laptop.  It happens at home, and away from home.
> > It also happens when I use the laptop in a completely different town.
> > When there is RFI on a USB cable, the Linux kernel's USB driver will
> > often generate errors, but I wasn't receiving any of those error
> > messages.  There aren't any cell towers near my house.  There is a cell
> > site hidden in the steeple of a nearby church, but that's been there for
> > decades, and there's no way it could possibly affect my mouse when I'm
> > two towns away.  Although they are easily hidden, I'm not aware of any
> > 5G antennae in the area which have gone up in the past couple of months.
> > Both my next-door neighbor and I are ham radio operators.  But, like the
> > cell site, that couldn't cause these problems when I'm out of town.  I
> > never carry a cell phone, smartwatch, or even any devices that use
> > Bluetooth.  The only wireless charger I use (for my toothbrush) sits at
> > home, next to the sink.  I've even checked the "spaceweather."  These
> > phantom clicks occur even when the spaceweather is clear: no solar
> > flares or geomagnetic storms.
> >
> > Yes, I'm sure I'm using the mouse correctly, just the same as I have for
> > the past decade.  This is not user error!  I don't have parkinsons,
> > seizures, or a pacemaker.  I'm not sneezing while I click.  I'm not
> > shivering from cold or trembling in fear.  I'm quite certain I'm not
> > hallucinating the spurious clicks, either.  I'm just completely baffled.
> >
> > The thought of "planned obsolesence" came to mind... both mice might
> > have been designed to fail after a certain period of time after their
> > manufacture.  But one of them went completely unused (and, thus, unworn)
> > that whole time.  Even if the failure were pre-programmed in firmware,
> > there's no way the spare mouse could possibly know what year it is,
> > because the USB HID protocol doesn't report that information to mice.
> > It's also highly unlikely that anyone could have sabotaged the mice.  I
> > keep tight physical control over my hardware and... more realistically,
> > why would anyone pull such a BIZARRE prank?  I have made no changes to
> > either hardware or software during the past couple of months, when the
> > strange behavior began.
> >
> > Has anyone here experienced this problem with the HP DY651A or M-U0013-O
> > mice?  Since it's recommended "Plan 9" hardware, I figure someone else
> > here might have encountered the same problem.  Any idea what could be
> > causing these mice to hallucinate mouse clicks?

------------------------------------------
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[9fans] Re: Need help explaining mouse gone crazy: HP DY651A/M-U0013-O

[cigar562hfsp952fans]

No, I'm using the mice on Linux.  I bought them when I installed Plan 9
because they were on the recommended hardware list:

  https://plan9.io/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html

I used them on 9front until I realized that Plan 9 can't be used for
real work,* then switched back to Linux.  I continued to use the mouse**
for about 13 years, until it started going crazy a couple of months ago.

I'm posting here because, as recommended Plan 9 hardware, it's likely
that others on this list will have the same mouse, and may be
experiencing (or have experienced) the same bizarre behavior.

* =  Because the only documentation is the source code.  The man pages
     don't track changes in the software.

** = Because scroll wheels aren't really useful outside of firefox,
     Autocad, or Minecraft.

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Re: [9fans] Re: Need help explaining mouse gone crazy: HP DY651A/M-U0013-O

[Jacob Moody]

On 3/7/25 12:45, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote:
> No, I'm using the mice on Linux.  I bought them when I installed Plan 9
> because they were on the recommended hardware list:
> 
>   https://plan9.io/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html
> 
> I used them on 9front until I realized that Plan 9 can't be used for
> real work,* then switched back to Linux.  I continued to use the mouse**
> for about 13 years, until it started going crazy a couple of months ago.

So the issue is not with the plan 9 software itself (considering the problem
was also present on linux), but just that the hardware itself has been flaky?

> 
> I'm posting here because, as recommended Plan 9 hardware, it's likely
> that others on this list will have the same mouse, and may be
> experiencing (or have experienced) the same bizarre behavior.
> 
> * =  Because the only documentation is the source code.  The man pages
>      don't track changes in the software.

They do track the software changes, If you look at the commits
you'll see that relevant changes to the code come with changes to the
manual pages (at least in 9front). If you have specific examples of
manual pages that you found to be out of sync with changes in the
software than, I would be happy to fix them.


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