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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 26.01.2024 10:49:42 Frank D. Engel, Jr. : > From my perspective, Plan 9 was split into two forks: 9legacy for people = who don't want it to move forward but simply to be maintained, and 9front f= or people who want the project to move forward and continue to grow. >=20 > Having a core team for "Plan 9" at this point would be kind of pointless = as the name was a real product at one time but now encompasses a collection= of related forks of what was once a product, so such a team would need to = form around one particular fork. >=20 > Having a core team basically expresses the goal of moving the project for= ward, so if a core team were to form right now, it would be for 9front, or = around a new fork with a similar set of common ideals (maybe we move on to = Plan 10?), since moving forward is kind of the antithesis of what 9legacy s= eems to be about. That sounds about right. Basically everything you said. Any attempt to release an official new edition of Plan 9 would be a fork. I personally think it is ok for 9legacy to just maintain the original versi= on and not move the project forward. I think 9front tries to stay as compat= ible as possible at runtime (so same binary formats, same protocols, basica= lly Plan 9 4th "plus"). What OP wants might include breaking changes that break compatibility on so= me system layers. Probably not on a level of protocols or something, but fi= lesystems might change, probably a complete new window manager, graphics ac= celeration, a different plumber and lots and lots of more "modern" software= (anyone wanna port firefox or chrome? ;) ). That might really be a Plan 10= at some point. I very much believe that this should be a fork, probably with some kinda pa= ckage manager to make larger parts optional. Not everyone needs everything.= Plan 9 as it is right now can include many things without asking, because = they're so small. Imagine bundling a 100M graphics driver with Plan 9, incl= uding the source! No, thanks. Back to topic with some question to the OP (and please, please, don't take = it personally or something): Is it possible that you want to contribute to = Plan 9 but don't know where to start? I remember, when I started with Plan = 9, I wanted to improve many things, contribute everything I could, until I = realized that many things are like they are on purpose. I was often grounde= d by people like ori, hiro, mycroftiv, kvik and a few others on grid, as we= ll as cat-v. I learned that being part of Plan 9 does not necessarily mean = contributing large chunks of code, or changing many things to be "better" (= whatever better means). sirjofri P.S.: sorry Frank, I clicked the wrong reply button. Of course this should = go to the mailing list. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5bdb5197344e4e7f-Mca288= 8763f27456d047a1d2e Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ------=_Part_22_262519138.1706269629583 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 26.01.2024 10:49:42 Frank D. Engel, Jr. <fde10= 1@fjrhome.net>:

From my perspective, Plan 9 was split into two fork= s: 9legacy for people who don't want it to move forward but simply to b= e maintained, and 9front for people who want the project to move forward an= d continue to grow.

Having a core team for "Plan 9" at this poi= nt would be kind of pointless as the name was a real product at one time bu= t now encompasses a collection of related forks of what was once a product,= so such a team would need to form around one particular fork.
=
Having a c= ore team basically expresses the goal of moving the project forward, so if = a core team were to form right now, it would be for 9front, or around a new= fork with a similar set of common ideals (maybe we move on to Plan 10?), s= ince moving forward is kind of the antithesis of what 9legacy seems to be a= bout.

That sounds about right. Basically everything you said= .

Any attempt to release an official new edition of Plan 9 would be a for= k.

I personally think it is ok for 9legacy to just maintain the original = version and not move the project forward. I think 9front tries to stay as c= ompatible as possible at runtime (so same binary formats, same protocols, b= asically Plan 9 4th "plus").

What OP wants might include breaki= ng changes that break compatibility on some system layers. Probably not on = a level of protocols or something, but filesystems might change, probably a= complete new window manager, graphics acceleration, a different plumber an= d lots and lots of more "modern" software (anyone wanna port fire= fox or chrome? ;) ). That might really be a Plan 10 at some point.
I very= much believe that this should be a fork, probably with some kinda package = manager to make larger parts optional. Not everyone needs everything. Plan = 9 as it is right now can include many things without asking, because they&#= 39;re so small. Imagine bundling a 100M graphics driver with Plan 9, includ= ing the source! No, thanks.

Back to topic with some question to the OP (a= nd please, please, don't take it personally or something): Is it possib= le that you want to contribute to Plan 9 but don't know where to start?= I remember, when I started with Plan 9, I wanted to improve many things, c= ontribute everything I could, until I realized that many things are like th= ey are on purpose. I was often grounded by people like ori, hiro, mycroftiv= , kvik and a few others on grid, as well as cat-v. I learned that being par= t of Plan 9 does not necessarily mean contributing large chunks of code, or= changing many things to be "better" (whatever better means).

s= irjofri

P.S.: sorry Frank, I clicked the wrong reply button. Of course th= is should go to the mailing list.
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