[9fans] extensions of "interest"

[9fans] extensions of "interest"

[ron minnich]

www.pdl.cmu.edu/posix

statlite()

ron

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[erik quanstrom]

On Thu Apr  9 13:19:11 EDT 2009, rminnich@gmail.com wrote:
> www.pdl.cmu.edu/posix
>
> statlite()

the statlite man page is itself lightweight, being available
on the web in pdf form.

- erik

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[J.R. Mauro]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:25 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> On Thu Apr  9 13:19:11 EDT 2009, rminnich@gmail.com wrote:
>> www.pdl.cmu.edu/posix
>>
>> statlite()
>
> the statlite man page is itself lightweight, being available
> on the web in pdf form.

And MS doc! There's a common Unix-y file format.

>
> - erik
>
>

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[erik quanstrom]

> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:25 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> > On Thu Apr  9 13:19:11 EDT 2009, rminnich@gmail.com wrote:
> >> www.pdl.cmu.edu/posix
> >>
> >> statlite()
> >
> > the statlite man page is itself lightweight, being available
> > on the web in pdf form.
>
> And MS doc! There's a common Unix-y file format.

although statlite seems impossible to use, it's by no means
the most troublesome syscall suggested.  check out openg and
sutoc.  kernel file handles?

by the way, it's a long time since i've seen a precidence
bug in a man page, but openg manages.  see p. 7 of openg
linked from the same page.

- erik

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[andrey mirtchovski]

i propose an extension to HTTP (call it HTTPeeLite) which allows me to
specify in my request to that webpage the format in which i prefer to
receive the man page. a 'setup' exchange can be sent beforehand to
establish the available types of documentation (.doc, .pdf, .tex,
.rtf, etc).

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[erik quanstrom]

On Thu Apr  9 13:44:50 EDT 2009, mirtchovski@gmail.com wrote:
> i propose an extension to HTTP (call it HTTPeeLite) which allows me to
> specify in my request to that webpage the format in which i prefer to
> receive the man page. a 'setup' exchange can be sent beforehand to
> establish the available types of documentation (.doc, .pdf, .tex,
> .rtf, etc).

or you could refrain from making the web any worse by just
providing the document in ... oh, what's that archane format ...
right, html.  if i recall correctly, it's the standard for web content.

☺

by the way, this is an absolute gem from sutoc

"handles are not inherently portable.  however, between like
architechtures and software operating system support versions
things just might work out.

fills me with optimism.

- erik

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[J.R. Mauro]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:48 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> On Thu Apr  9 13:44:50 EDT 2009, mirtchovski@gmail.com wrote:
>> i propose an extension to HTTP (call it HTTPeeLite) which allows me to
>> specify in my request to that webpage the format in which i prefer to
>> receive the man page. a 'setup' exchange can be sent beforehand to
>> establish the available types of documentation (.doc, .pdf, .tex,
>> .rtf, etc).
>
> or you could refrain from making the web any worse by just
> providing the document in ... oh, what's that archane format ...
> right, html.  if i recall correctly, it's the standard for web content.
>
> ☺
>
> by the way, this is an absolute gem from sutoc
>
> "handles are not inherently portable.  however, between like
> architechtures and software operating system support versions
> things just might work out.
>
> fills me with optimism.


 Almost as cheery as alloca() and gets(),  another fine pair of
functions we should all use more often :)

>
> - erik
>
>

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[andrey mirtchovski]

> or you could refrain from making the web any worse by just
> providing the document in ... oh, what's that archane format ...
> right, html.  if i recall correctly, it's the standard for web content.

in the immortal words of Colin Chapman: "Complicate, then add weight".

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[Anthony Sorace]

from the man pages^W^Wpdf:

// FUTURE DIRECTIONS
//
// None.

we should be so lucky.

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[Steve Simon]

> in the immortal words of Colin Chapman: "Complicate, then add weight".

Is this sarcasm?

I remember the quote as: "To add speed, add lightness"

-Steve

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[andrey mirtchovski]

> Is this sarcasm?

yes, but not addressed towards Mr. Chapman, bless his cars. glad at
least one person caught that.

internet is bizarro world.

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[andrey mirtchovski]

ps, the quote is  "Simplify, then add lightness"

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:30 PM, andrey mirtchovski
<mirtchovski@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is this sarcasm?
>
> yes, but not addressed towards Mr. Chapman, bless his cars. glad at
> least one person caught that.
>
> internet is bizarro world.
>

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> ps, the quote is  "Simplify, then add lightness"
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:30 PM, andrey mirtchovski
> <mirtchovski@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Is this sarcasm?
>>
>> yes, but not addressed towards Mr. Chapman, bless his cars. glad at
>> least one person caught that.
>>
>> internet is bizarro world.
>>

according to wikiquote.org it is "Simplicate, then add lightness".
i had not heard it before; it's good.

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[andrey mirtchovski]

> according to wikiquote.org it is "Simplicate, then add lightness".

yes, it's even better than how i remember it!

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[John P. Cummings]

Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>> ps, the quote is  "Simplify, then add lightness"
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:30 PM, andrey mirtchovski
>> <mirtchovski@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Is this sarcasm?
>>>>
>>> yes, but not addressed towards Mr. Chapman, bless his cars. glad at
>>> least one person caught that.
>>>
>>> internet is bizarro world.
>>>
>>>
>
> according to wikiquote.org it is "Simplicate, then add lightness".
> i had not heard it before; it's good.
>

i've always thought that quote was due to william bushnell stout, an
aeronautical and automotive engineer.  whoever said it, it _is_ good.
and worth remembering.

john cummings

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[Bakul Shah]

On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 15:31:35 MDT andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com>  wrote:
> ps, the quote is  "Simplify, then add lightness"

Makes perfect sense for Chapman's purposes.  Replace steel
with aluminium. Fiberglass instead of sheet metal and so on.
Unfortunately we don't have exact analogs in s/w.  We can
only simplicate; we can't add lightness!

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[erik quanstrom]

> Makes perfect sense for Chapman's purposes.  Replace steel
> with aluminium. Fiberglass instead of sheet metal and so on.
> Unfortunately we don't have exact analogs in s/w.  We can
> only simplicate; we can't add lightness!

read ken's code!

- erik

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[lucio]

>> Makes perfect sense for Chapman's purposes.  Replace steel
>> with aluminium. Fiberglass instead of sheet metal and so on.
>> Unfortunately we don't have exact analogs in s/w.  We can
>> only simplicate; we can't add lightness!
>
> read ken's code!

I still can't figure what "typestr" does in the C compiler!

:-) :-) :-)

++L

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[Russ Cox]

> I still can't figure what "typestr" does in the C compiler!

right on schedule!

http://9fans.net/archive/2001/05/482  (may 31 2001)
http://9fans.net/archive/2005/05/69   (may 7 2005)

russ

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[Anthony Sorace]

> right on schedule!
>
> http://9fans.net/archive/2001/05/482  (may 31 2001)
> http://9fans.net/archive/2005/05/69   (may 7 2005)

okay, that timing's just freaky.

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[lucio]

>> right on schedule!
>>
>> http://9fans.net/archive/2001/05/482  (may 31 2001)
>> http://9fans.net/archive/2005/05/69   (may 7 2005)
> 
> okay, that timing's just freaky.

And I keep missing the crucial message :-(

Freaky, definitely.  Thanks for the explanation.  Specially to Jim :-)

++L

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[dave.l]

Is it?

It's probably a statistical certainty based on
9-fans being a fairly fixed-size group, which it does seem to be and
human beings being remarkably similar in their ability to forget things.

Max kudos to Russ as usual for spotting it.

Let's wait another approx 4 years less 3 weeks and see what happens.

On 12 Apr 2009, at 03:42, Anthony Sorace wrote:

>> right on schedule!
>>
>> http://9fans.net/archive/2001/05/482  (may 31 2001)
>> http://9fans.net/archive/2005/05/69   (may 7 2005)
>
> okay, that timing's just freaky.
>

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[andrey mirtchovski]

> Unfortunately we don't have exact analogs in s/w.  We can
> only simplicate; we can't add lightness!

but somehow we can add "weight". can't we? bash is perceivably
"heavier" than rc, xml perceivably "heavier" than 9p... statlite()
perceivably "heavier" than stat() :)

we just don't quantify "weight" in terms of kilos, but we know it's there...

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[Bakul Shah]

On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:10:47 MDT andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com>  wrote:
> > Unfortunately we don't have exact analogs in s/w.  We can
> > only simplicate; we can't add lightness!
>
> but somehow we can add "weight". can't we? bash is perceivably
> "heavier" than rc, xml perceivably "heavier" than 9p... statlite()
> perceivably "heavier" than stat() :)

Yes of course.  But that is because they use a more
complicated design that results in use of more code.

What I meant is in a physical assembly you can carefully
hollow out a solid part or use a lighter material to get a
lighter part without changing its structural properties
(much) and no other parts or couplings have to be changed.

In a program one can use hand code asembly or inline code
instead of calling a function, or call a function instead of
RPC to a separate process and so on but in each case there is
a tighter coupling that reduces flexibility.

Design done by wizards have simpler and fewer parts -- they
are simply much better at design. They "simplicate".

But granted, the analogy is rather weak :-)

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[Robert Raschke]

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Bakul Shah <bakul+plan9@bitblocks.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately we don't have exact analogs in s/w.  We can
> only simplicate; we can't add lightness!

In manufacturing, I'd suppose lighter materials are harder to make and
use, kind of like using low level languages for components. Standard
optimization techique, replace measurably slow (heavy) components by
something implemented closer (lighter) to the machine.

Robby

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[maht]

andrey mirtchovski wrote:
> i propose an extension to HTTP (call it HTTPeeLite) which allows me to
> specify in my request to that webpage the format in which i prefer to
> receive the man page. a 'setup' exchange can be sent beforehand to
> establish the available types of documentation (.doc, .pdf, .tex,
> .rtf, etc).
>
>
>
Already part of HTTP

Accept: application/msword; q=1, application/pdf;
q=0.5,application/x-troff-ms; q=0.3

q is the level of preference, you'll get word docs first

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[J.R. Mauro]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:05 PM, maht <mattmobile@proweb.co.uk> wrote:
> andrey mirtchovski wrote:
>>
>> i propose an extension to HTTP (call it HTTPeeLite) which allows me to
>> specify in my request to that webpage the format in which i prefer to
>> receive the man page. a 'setup' exchange can be sent beforehand to
>> establish the available types of documentation (.doc, .pdf, .tex,
>> .rtf, etc).
>>
>>
>>
>
> Already part of HTTP
>
> Accept: application/msword; q=1, application/pdf;
> q=0.5,application/x-troff-ms; q=0.3
>
> q is the level of preference, you'll get word docs first
>
>

Wow. Could it get any worse?

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[erik quanstrom]

> > Already part of HTTP
> >
> > Accept: application/msword; q=1, application/pdf;
> > q=0.5,application/x-troff-ms; q=0.3
> >
> > q is the level of preference, you'll get word docs first
> >
> >
>
> Wow. Could it get any worse?

yes.  just read a few lines further in the rfc and note that
there's also a "level" modifier.  it's not clear to me what
level is supposed to do from their example.

       Accept: text/*;q=0.3, text/html;q=0.7, text/html;level=1,
                  text/html;level=2;q=0.4, */*;q=0.5

- erik

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[J.R. Mauro]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:22 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> > Already part of HTTP
>> >
>> > Accept: application/msword; q=1, application/pdf;
>> > q=0.5,application/x-troff-ms; q=0.3
>> >
>> > q is the level of preference, you'll get word docs first
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Wow. Could it get any worse?
>
> yes.  just read a few lines further in the rfc and note that
> there's also a "level" modifier.  it's not clear to me what
> level is supposed to do from their example.
>
>       Accept: text/*;q=0.3, text/html;q=0.7, text/html;level=1,
>                  text/html;level=2;q=0.4, */*;q=0.5
>

I took a look at this page:
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html

And it seems to suggest that "level" is for picking between text/html
and text/html [sic]

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[Mechiel Lukkien]

On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 03:22:48PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > > Already part of HTTP
> > >
> > > Accept: application/msword; q=1, application/pdf;
> > > q=0.5,application/x-troff-ms; q=0.3
> > >
> > > q is the level of preference, you'll get word docs first
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Wow. Could it get any worse?
>
> yes.  just read a few lines further in the rfc and note that
> there's also a "level" modifier.  it's not clear to me what
> level is supposed to do from their example.
>
>        Accept: text/*;q=0.3, text/html;q=0.7, text/html;level=1,
>                   text/html;level=2;q=0.4, */*;q=0.5

and there is more!

10.3.1 300 Multiple Choices

   The requested resource corresponds to any one of a set of
   representations, each with its own specific location, and agent-
   driven negotiation information (section 12) is being provided so that
   the user (or user agent) can select a preferred representation and
   redirect its request to that location.

   ...


mjl

Re: [9fans] extensions of "interest"

[LiteStar numnums]

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what, no SOAP? Not enterprise ready.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:43 PM, andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com>wrote:

> i propose an extension to HTTP (call it HTTPeeLite) which allows me to
> specify in my request to that webpage the format in which i prefer to
> receive the man page. a 'setup' exchange can be sent beforehand to
> establish the available types of documentation (.doc, .pdf, .tex,
> .rtf, etc).
>
>


--
And in the "Only Prolog programmers will find this funny" department:

Q: How many Prolog programmers does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: No.
 -- Ovid

   "By cosmic rule, as day yields night, so winter summer, war peace, plenty
famine. All things change. Air penetrates the lump of myrrh, until the
joining bodies die and rise again in smoke called incense."

   "Men do not know how that which is drawn in different directions
harmonises with itself. The harmonious structure of the world depends upon
opposite tension like that of the bow and the lyre."

   "This universe, which is the same for all, has not been made by any god
or man, but it always has been, is, and will be an ever-living fire,
kindling itself by regular measures and going out by regular measures"
-- Heraclitus

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