From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Burton Samograd To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs (9fans@9fans.net)" <9fans@9fans.net> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:12:44 -0400 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D2A5C7470D67A54FACE86B838946D49D14E466F692NJ4MSGSCR02ma_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 88fed5ae-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --_000_D2A5C7470D67A54FACE86B838946D49D14E466F692NJ4MSGSCR02ma_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>From the IL Wikipedia page: As of the Fourth Edition of Plan 9, 2003, IL is deprecated in favor of = TCP/IP because it doesn't handle long-distance connections well. Does anybody still use IL? It sounds like an interesting protocol and I'm = wondering if anybody has or is still using it for either local network or i= nternet usage. And, given It's depreciation status, is it still available = for use if one does want to use it? -- Burton Samograd ________________________________ This e-mail, including accompanying communications and attachments, is stri= ctly confidential and only for the intended recipient. Any retention, use o= r disclosure not expressly authorised by Markit is prohibited. This email i= s subject to all waivers and other terms at the following link: http://www.= markit.com/en/about/legal/email-disclaimer.page Please visit http://www.markit.com/en/about/contact/contact-us.page? for co= ntact information on our offices worldwide. --_000_D2A5C7470D67A54FACE86B838946D49D14E466F692NJ4MSGSCR02ma_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From the IL Wikipedia page:

As of the Fourth Edition of Plan = 9, 2003, IL is deprecated in favor of TCP/IP because it doesn't handle long= -distance connections well.

Does anybody still use IL? It sounds like an i= nteresting protocol and I’m wondering if anybody has or is still usin= g it for either local network or internet usage. And, given It’= s depreciation status, is it still available for use if one does want to use it?

Burton Samograd

This e-mail, including acco= mpanying communications and attachments, is strictly confidential and only = for the intended recipient. Any retention, use or disclosure not expressly = authorised by Markit is prohibited. This email is subject to all waivers and other terms at the following link: htt= p://www.markit.com/en/about/legal/email-disclaimer.page

Please visit http://www.markit.com/en/about/contact/contact-us.page? for co= ntact information on our offices worldwide.
--_000_D2A5C7470D67A54FACE86B838946D49D14E466F692NJ4MSGSCR02ma_-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 18:31:17 +0200 From: David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com> To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <20120511183117.7b9a65a9@wks-ddc.exosec.local> In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 89104d3e-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Does anybody still use IL? It sounds like an interesting protocol > and I'm wondering if anybody has or is still using it for either > local network or internet usage. And, given It's depreciation > status, is it still available for use if one does want to use it? I still use IL on my local network, but that's mostly for fun. You can easily add the IL protocol back to the kernel by applying the following patches: term% cd / term% 9fs sources term% ape/patch -p1 < /n/sources/contrib/djc/il/il-plan9.diff term% ape/patch -p1 < /n/sources/contrib/djc/il/il-netlog.diff term% ape/patch -p1 < /n/sources/contrib/djc/il/il-conf.diff -- David du Colombier From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 09:36:55 -0700 Message-ID: From: Skip Tavakkolian To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 891638fc-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 the set is at least as large as the number of people who have kenfs. On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Burton Samograd wrote: > From the IL Wikipedia page: > > > > =A0=A0=A0 As of the Fourth Edition of Plan 9, 2003, IL is deprecated in f= avor of > TCP/IP because it doesn't handle long-distance connections well. > > > > Does anybody still use IL?=A0 It sounds like an interesting protocol and = I=92m > wondering if anybody has or is still using it for either local network or > internet usage.=A0 And, given It=92s depreciation status, is it still ava= ilable > for use if one does want to use it? > > > > -- > > Burton Samograd > > > ________________________________ > This e-mail, including accompanying communications and attachments, is > strictly confidential and only for the intended recipient. Any retention, > use or disclosure not expressly authorised by Markit is prohibited. This > email is subject to all waivers and other terms at the following link: > http://www.markit.com/en/about/legal/email-disclaimer.page > > Please visit http://www.markit.com/en/about/contact/contact-us.page? for > contact information on our offices worldwide. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Burton Samograd To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:42:35 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20120511183117.7b9a65a9@wks-ddc.exosec.local> In-Reply-To: <20120511183117.7b9a65a9@wks-ddc.exosec.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 891bfce2-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > I still use IL on my local network, but that's mostly for fun. Does it offer the advantages claimed over TCP? Do you think it is even po= ssible to run it over the internet anymore given the amount of filtering an= d such that is going on at the ISP level now? -- Burton This e-mail, including accompanying communications and attachments, is stri= ctly confidential and only for the intended recipient. Any retention, use o= r disclosure not expressly authorised by Markit is prohibited. This email i= s subject to all waivers and other terms at the following link: http://www.= markit.com/en/about/legal/email-disclaimer.page Please visit http://www.markit.com/en/about/contact/contact-us.page? for co= ntact information on our offices worldwide. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 19:49:16 +0200 From: David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com> To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <20120511194916.50ee96d4@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20120511183117.7b9a65a9@wks-ddc.exosec.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 892ac9b6-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Does it offer the advantages claimed over TCP? Do you think it is > even possible to run it over the internet anymore given the amount of > filtering and such that is going on at the ISP level now? I think the main advantage of IL over TCP is its simplicity. However, I wouldn't recommend using it beyond fun or historical interest. Unless of course if you are using the old file server. I used IL over Internet few years ago and, as far as I recall, it worked fine. My ISP doesn't do any sort of protocol filtering. The most common issue you are likely to encounter is when you have to pass through a NAT. NAT implementations don't usually understand the IL protocol and thus doesn't know how to translate the ports and recalculate the checksum. -- David du Colombier From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: From: Connor Lane Smith Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 19:05:54 +0100 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 8930eec2-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 Hey, The explanation for IL's deprecation is originally from the Plan 9 fourth release notes [1]: > We are phasing out the IL protocol since it doesn=E2=80=99t handle long-d= istance > connections well (and long-distance networks don=E2=80=99t handle it well= , either). Does anyone know what it is about IL's design that means it doesn't handle long-distance connections well? [1]: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/release4.html Thanks, cls From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 14:06:45 -0400 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20120511183117.7b9a65a9@wks-ddc.exosec.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 8936d99a-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Fri May 11 12:43:42 EDT 2012, burton.samograd@markit.com wrote: > > I still use IL on my local network, but that's mostly for fun. > > > Does it offer the advantages claimed over TCP? Do you think it is yes, it does. - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 15:14:42 -0300 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Iruat=C3=A3_Souza?= To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 893c98a8-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/source/detail?r=3Df31b07b59320acda22829= bb12bac497cb5a29a69 On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Connor Lane Smith wrote: > Hey, > > The explanation for IL's deprecation is originally from the Plan 9 > fourth release notes [1]: > >> We are phasing out the IL protocol since it doesn=E2=80=99t handle long-= distance >> connections well (and long-distance networks don=E2=80=99t handle it wel= l, either). > > Does anyone know what it is about IL's design that means it doesn't > handle long-distance connections well? > > [1]: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/release4.html > > Thanks, > cls > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 14:39:04 -0400 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> In-Reply-To: References:

MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 894cbb16-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > > Does anyone know what it is about IL's design that means it doesn't > handle long-distance connections well? i can't think of anything that's inherent or fundamental to the protocol. on the other hand, i don't use il over the internet since it's not encrypted. tls over the internet makes much more sense to me. - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 20:52:56 +0200 From: David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com> To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <20120511205256.097d202b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> References:

<2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 8951a93c-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > i can't think of anything that's inherent or fundamental to the > protocol. on the other hand, i don't use il over the internet since > it's not encrypted. tls over the internet makes much more sense to me. Can't you use TLS over IL? -- David du Colombier From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 15:14:38 -0400 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <7e11957adbf79eaf52503b801ba12af6@coraid.com> In-Reply-To: <20120511205256.097d202b@gmail.com> References:

<2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> <20120511205256.097d202b@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 8956ccbe-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Fri May 11 14:54:37 EDT 2012, 0intro@gmail.com wrote: > > i can't think of anything that's inherent or fundamental to the > > protocol. on the other hand, i don't use il over the internet since > > it's not encrypted. tls over the internet makes much more sense to me. > > Can't you use TLS over IL? i think tls only requires reliable, in-order. it has it's own record layer. so yes, good point, i think you could. - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Burton Samograd To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 16:46:33 -0400 Message-ID: References:

<2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> In-Reply-To: <2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 895c0be8-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > i don't use il over the internet since it's not encrypted. > tls over the internet makes much more sense to me. Is there no encryption support for 9P? - erik This e-mail, including accompanying communications and attachments, is stri= ctly confidential and only for the intended recipient. Any retention, use o= r disclosure not expressly authorised by Markit is prohibited. This email i= s subject to all waivers and other terms at the following link: http://www.= markit.com/en/about/legal/email-disclaimer.page Please visit http://www.markit.com/en/about/contact/contact-us.page? for co= ntact information on our offices worldwide. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Burton Samograd To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 16:48:30 -0400 Message-ID: References:

<2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 8969c210-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 Oops, that wasn't from eric... > i don't use il over the internet since it's not encrypted. > tls over the internet makes much more sense to me. Is there no encryption support for 9P? -- Burton Samograd This e-mail, including accompanying communications and attachments, is stri= ctly confidential and only for the intended recipient. Any retention, use o= r disclosure not expressly authorised by Markit is prohibited. This email i= s subject to all waivers and other terms at the following link: http://www.= markit.com/en/about/legal/email-disclaimer.page Please visit http://www.markit.com/en/about/contact/contact-us.page? for co= ntact information on our offices worldwide. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 23:01:33 +0200 From: David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com> To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <20120511230133.7c362a0b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References:

<2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 8973ea88-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Is there no encryption support for 9P? cpu(1), import(4) and exportfs(4) supports optional encryption using the ssl(3) record layer. -- David du Colombier From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:20:35 -0400 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <355bb515afbbc4c1f561a6181f741798@coraid.com> In-Reply-To: <20120511230133.7c362a0b@gmail.com> References:

<2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> <20120511230133.7c362a0b@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 897a2a42-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Fri May 11 17:04:04 EDT 2012, 0intro@gmail.com wrote: > > Is there no encryption support for 9P? > > cpu(1), import(4) and exportfs(4) supports optional > encryption using the ssl(3) record layer. using tcp. there is no reason support for tls/il/ip couldn't have been added, but it was not. - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <355bb515afbbc4c1f561a6181f741798@coraid.com> References:

<2618368964be9bae4cc045fff8c95781@coraid.com> <20120511230133.7c362a0b@gmail.com> <355bb515afbbc4c1f561a6181f741798@coraid.com> Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 01:58:06 +0100 Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cbab2a9034d04bfcc58b8 Subject: Re: [9fans] IL depreciated Topicbox-Message-UUID: 8987b658-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --0015175cbab2a9034d04bfcc58b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >Does anyone know what it is about IL's design that means it doesn't >handle long-distance connections well? congestion control, and NATP. the latter isn't IL's design, but IP's, or NAT's, or both. --0015175cbab2a9034d04bfcc58b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Does anyone know what it is about IL's design th= at means it doesn't
>handle long-distance connections well?

congestion control, and NATP. the latter isn't IL's design= , but IP's, or NAT's, or both.

--0015175cbab2a9034d04bfcc58b8--