From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_MBTKPbScfovPbgZbKWXNuQ)" To: 9fans@9fans.net From: V-CA ! Christoph Paschke Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:00:56 +0000 Message-id: Subject: [9fans] user oriented driver interface, advanced efficiency trimmed GUI Topicbox-Message-UUID: 685b596c-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --Boundary_(ID_MBTKPbScfovPbgZbKWXNuQ) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable @Tristan yes, that's what I wanted explain with GSoC. Need be something what realy = brings the Plan 9 system forward I think. Also, you maybe never use a printer or any other hardware devices, with me= and most business applications it is just opposite. Since I can remember there are 2 branche lines in IT and in Germany they d= evided the professions into technical informatic and economic informatic p= eople. It means, that some people will program in the inner parts of the o= perating system, drivers etc. and others will program the upper parts of t= he user programs, specialy the presentation part, the database, the busine= ss application ... Therefore, it makes good sense, that if those from the economic informatic= people that doing the upper level programs for example with Limbo in our = case, get some basics like the driver problems done by the technical infor= matic people. The technical people will not find the way to write the right user program= s and the economic people will not find the right way to write the device = drivers etc. Therefore, the aspect of a user-oriented device support at th= e GSoC I like much. For those programers like me a computer without a prin= ter is like a car without seats. You can drive with such car, but importan= t parts are so strong missing, that I not have such an entusiasm to drive = with such a car longer than needed. And this is something that need be cha= nged if anybody wants that this car is used more. Ok, if this operating sy= stem only "just for fun" you not need seats in a car. But if you want reac= h more, you need. Also what John says I like: It's good to have a good GUI library. I still = not know if this should be something like a curses library, something text= based like in midnight-commander or mut etc. or a real grafic advantage. = I fear that a GUI library fast ends in an endless complex ressource eating= object oriented subsystem what not represents the small size and efficien= cy of this procedural system as it is now. At the end, the GUI will be 100= times bigger than the whole system: Such I expect with an object oriented= modern GUI system. And if this happens, I will more and more think why I = not install Ubuntu with it new GTK etc.=20 We programed in DOS with a layer direct to the 0xb800 memory, it was not o= riented at endless complex active structures, it was a passiv but well wor= king high efficient GUI system, based on memory layers as matching for a n= ormal 2D text GUI. We had such things like Borland Turbo Vision, I liked t= he programing in this high efficient IDE. So, for me, this is an idea what= can match to such a small high efficient system like Plan 9. And with suc= h an GUI I know at once companies that like to see this in their programs.= We had such key shortcuts, such small prompts where can call small comman= ds or following some menues with the order of menu numbers. Nothing of the= modern systems can compete with such systems. Today the efficiency of mod= ern presentation layer (GUI) becoming more and more bad, this .net webbase= d GUIs are the absolut efficiency catastrophy. My idea of a Plan 9 GUI in = the context of John would be a high efficient GUI like in DOS times and no= t such tamagotschi shit like modern interfaces. It's only an expression of= my feelings, not know if others can follow that experiences that I made?= --Boundary_(ID_MBTKPbScfovPbgZbKWXNuQ) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_CvSmWVmaD7haMAdPcwc1uQ)"; type="text/html" --Boundary_(ID_CvSmWVmaD7haMAdPcwc1uQ) Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
@Tristan
yes, that's what I wanted explain with GSoC. Need be something what r= ealy brings the Plan 9 system forward I think.
Also, you maybe never use a printer or any other hardware devices, wi= th me and most business applications it is just opposite.
Since I can remember there are 2 branche lines in IT and in Germany t= hey devided the professions into technical informatic and economic informa= tic people. It means, that some people will program in the inner parts of = the operating system, drivers etc. and others will program the upper parts= of the user programs, specialy the presentation part, the database, the b= usiness application ...
 
Therefore, it makes good sense, that if those from the economic infor= matic people that doing the upper level programs for example with Limbo in= our case, get some basics like the driver problems done by the technical = informatic people.
 
The technical people will not find the way to write the right user pr= ograms and the economic people will not find the right way to write the de= vice drivers etc. Therefore, the aspect of a user-oriented device support = at the GSoC I like much. For those programers like me a computer without a= printer is like a car without seats. You can drive with such car, but imp= ortant parts are so strong missing, that I not have such an entusiasm to&n= bsp;drive with such a car longer than needed. And this is something that n= eed be changed if anybody wants that this car is used more. Ok, if this&nb= sp;operating system only "just for fun" you not need seats in a car. = But if you want reach more, you need.
 
Also what John says I like: It's good to have a good&n= bsp;GUI library. I still not know if this should be something like&nb= sp;a curses library, something text based like in midnight-commander or mu= t etc. or a real grafic advantage. I fear that a GUI library fast end= s in an endless complex ressource eating object oriented subsyst= em what not represents the small size and efficiency of this procedural sy= stem as it is now. At the end, the GUI will be 100 times bigger than = the whole system: Such I expect with an object oriented modern GUI system.= And if this happens, I will more and more think why I not install Ubuntu = with it new GTK etc.
 
We programed in DOS with a layer direct to the 0xb800 memory, it was = not oriented at endless complex active structures, it was a passiv but wel= l working high efficient GUI system, based on memory layers as matching fo= r a normal 2D text GUI. We had such things like Borland Turbo Vision, I li= ked the programing in this high efficient IDE. So, for me, this is an=  idea what can match to such a small high efficient system like = Plan 9. And with such an GUI I know at once companies that like = to see this in their programs. We had such key shortcuts, such small = prompts where can call small commands or following some menues with t= he order of menu numbers. Nothing of the modern systems can comp= ete with such systems. Today the efficiency of modern presentation la= yer (GUI) becoming more and more bad, this .net webbased GUIs ar= e the absolut efficiency catastrophy. My idea of a Plan 9 GUI in the = context of John would be a high efficient GUI like in DOS times and n= ot such tamagotschi shit like modern interfaces. It's only an express= ion of my feelings, not know if others can follow that experiences that I = made?
 
 
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