From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5d375e920905221443g73e8e66fy77fa24f20d710211@mail.gmail.com> References: <13426df10905220951l6ecd3e31t9996dbdb6e7eb3fe@mail.gmail.com> <13426df10905221431g4fabb61er19782cfd7adeef05@mail.gmail.com> <5d375e920905221443g73e8e66fy77fa24f20d710211@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 16:59:19 -0600 Message-ID: From: Latchesar Ionkov To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] sources down? Topicbox-Message-UUID: fcdd412a-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 The reality is that the sources outages rarely cause any _real_ problems. I wasn't able to access it few days ago, and instead of bothering geoff or jim, I just waited few hours. The server came up and I got what I needed. Lucho On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Uriel wrote: > On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:31 PM, ron minnich wrote: >> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Rudolf Sykora wrote: >> >>> In order I be of any help I need to know why the hell this happens, >>> first. I know next to nothing about how the whole system of sources >>> works, still I can help if I know how. But I do not remember anybody >>> saying: 'hey guys, we have this and this problem that causes the >>> sources are down every now and then.' Yet we see it happening. >> >> >> OK, so let's try again. How about this: >> instead of blasting a note to the known universe, 99.999% of which >> can't do anything about the situation, one could do the following: >> >> send a polite, discreet note to the people who actually run sources, >> something like this: >> "I would like to offer to help with making sources easily and readily >> available to the net. I've noticed that, at times, sources is not >> accessible. Is there some way in which I can help, by, e.g., =A0running >> a replicated server?" >> >> Does this latter approach work? Yes, I have seen it work. It's why we >> have an improving USB stack. > > What improving USB stack? Ah, so doing everything in secret is the way > to go? I wonder why don't we just shut down 9fans, open discussion and > collaboration is certainly not something anyone wants here anyway. > >> >> Does the former approach fail? Yes. It has driven some important >> people from this list. Antisocial behavior has negative consequences. > > The only antisocial behavior here (besides mine, obviously) was your > condescending and insulting answer to somebody that just asked an > honest question, and the insinuation that he wasn't ready to help, > when you just admitted "99.999%" of the people can't do anything about > the situation, in great part because people that want to help are made > to feel they are unwelcome by comments like yours. > > >> Whining to the list is just, well, =A0... whining to the list. It ends >> up looking like an attempt to coerce people by shaming them in a >> public situation. It's what my kids used to do when they could not get >> their favorite dessert in the store. It doesn't make anyone feel any >> better. It's why so many people have Uriel in their kill files. > > It makes people aware of a problem that many keep denying and > demeaning. If people can't deal with reality, there are always kill > files, as you point out. > > uriel > >