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* [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
@ 2021-03-28  8:13 saif.resun
  2021-03-28  9:09 ` Richard Miller
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: saif.resun @ 2021-03-28  8:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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hello there!

I want to use Plan9 compiler (8c) on my windows 10 system. How can I compile the source code of 8c for windows 10 in plan9 system?

can someone help me?
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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-28  8:13 [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10? saif.resun
@ 2021-03-28  9:09 ` Richard Miller
  2021-03-28  9:21   ` Sean Hinchee
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2021-03-28  9:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I want to use Plan9 compiler (8c) on my windows 10 system.

Not possible except by running Plan 9 on a virtual machine.

You can, however, use the inferno version of 8c on some windows platforms.
I don't know if windows 10 is one of them.


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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-28  9:09 ` Richard Miller
@ 2021-03-28  9:21   ` Sean Hinchee
  2021-03-28 13:16     ` saif.resun
  2021-03-29  4:57     ` Ethan Gardener
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Sean Hinchee @ 2021-03-28  9:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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Inferno 8c should work fine on Win10 :)

Cheers,
Sean

On Sunday, March 28, 2021, Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com> wrote:

> > I want to use Plan9 compiler (8c) on my windows 10 system.
> 
> Not possible except by running Plan 9 on a virtual machine.
> 
> You can, however, use the inferno version of 8c on some windows platforms.
> I don't know if windows 10 is one of them.
> 

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-28  9:21   ` Sean Hinchee
@ 2021-03-28 13:16     ` saif.resun
  2021-03-28 15:08       ` ron minnich
                         ` (2 more replies)
  2021-03-29  4:57     ` Ethan Gardener
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: saif.resun @ 2021-03-28 13:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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uh inferno's 8c compiles .exe file?
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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-28 13:16     ` saif.resun
@ 2021-03-28 15:08       ` ron minnich
  2021-03-29  6:42         ` arnold
  2021-03-28 15:16       ` Paul Lalonde
  2021-03-29  4:51       ` Ethan Gardener
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: ron minnich @ 2021-03-28 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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Nxm built kencen toolchain on Linux.

https://github.com/rminnich/NxM

We could build all of plan9 on Linux. You might be able to start there and
produce .Exe's.

Not tested for quite some time now. Derived from nix.



On Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:17 AM <saif.resun@outlook.com> wrote:

> uh inferno's 8c compiles .exe file?
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
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> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4d77cc95ab4ed70c-M3f3b47b1f09745ffc88175bf>
>

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-28 13:16     ` saif.resun
  2021-03-28 15:08       ` ron minnich
@ 2021-03-28 15:16       ` Paul Lalonde
  2021-03-29  4:51       ` Ethan Gardener
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Paul Lalonde @ 2021-03-28 15:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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You're now asking a question of ABI (application binary interface) more
than of the compiler.  The ABI is the hard part - what the calling
conventions are, linkage and executable formats, etc, which vary
significantly from system to system.  You may find a way to compile the
compiler so it runs in Windows, but it will keep making (to a first
approximation) binaries for Plan 9.

Paul

On Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:16 AM <saif.resun@outlook.com> wrote:

> uh inferno's 8c compiles .exe file?
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4d77cc95ab4ed70c-M3f3b47b1f09745ffc88175bf>
>

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-28 13:16     ` saif.resun
  2021-03-28 15:08       ` ron minnich
  2021-03-28 15:16       ` Paul Lalonde
@ 2021-03-29  4:51       ` Ethan Gardener
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-03-29  4:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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On Sun, Mar 28, 2021, at 2:16 PM, saif.resun@outlook.com <mailto:saif.resun%40outlook.com> wrote:
> uh inferno's 8c compiles .exe file?

no, 8c doesn't produce any executables, it leaves that to the linker, 8l. by default, 8l produces plan 9 executables, but the -H option can produce some other formats. the man page doesn't list windows exe but you could look in the source. look for "Nt"; inferno's name for windows, and "PE"; the executable format for modern ms windows, or "MZ" in case it still uses the old windows exe format.
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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-28  9:21   ` Sean Hinchee
  2021-03-28 13:16     ` saif.resun
@ 2021-03-29  4:57     ` Ethan Gardener
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-03-29  4:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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On Sun, Mar 28, 2021, at 10:21 AM, Sean Hinchee wrote:
> Inferno 8c should work fine on Win10 :)

it runs and produces output. :) i didn't check if the output works; wasn't even sure how to produce a testable binary as it couldn't even find u.h.
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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-28 15:08       ` ron minnich
@ 2021-03-29  6:42         ` arnold
  2021-03-29 14:04           ` Russ Cox
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2021-03-29  6:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Is there a usable, standalone, 32- or 64-bit version of kenc that
works on Linux?

By "usable" I mean "able to compile and run regular Linux code". For
example, oh, say, compiling and testing GNU Awk. :-)

(Besides GCC and clang, I test gawk with tinycc and the revived PCC
compilers. I have often wanted to add kenc into the mix, but haven't
found a usable, standalone version thereof.)

Thanks,

Arnold

ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nxm built kencen toolchain on Linux.
>
> https://github.com/rminnich/NxM
>
> We could build all of plan9 on Linux. You might be able to start there and
> produce .Exe's.
>
> Not tested for quite some time now. Derived from nix.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:17 AM <saif.resun@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> > uh inferno's 8c compiles .exe file?
> > *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4d77cc95ab4ed70c-M3f3b47b1f09745ffc88175bf>
> >

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-29  6:42         ` arnold
@ 2021-03-29 14:04           ` Russ Cox
  2021-03-29 14:14             ` arnold
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Russ Cox @ 2021-03-29 14:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

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Hi Arnold,

The hard part is not so much the compiling but the linking against
system libraries. Honestly once you have both gcc and clang happy (with
no warnings), I doubt very much that using the Plan 9 C compilers will
bring much additional benefit for finding bugs (except bugs in the
compiler!).

Best,
Russ

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-29 14:04           ` Russ Cox
@ 2021-03-29 14:14             ` arnold
  2021-03-29 15:08               ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-03-29 15:15               ` ori
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2021-03-29 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Hi Russ.

Thanks for this.  You are probably right, but it's always good to
test against as many compilers as possible.

Out of curiousity, why is linking against the system libraries so
hard?  I assume a port of kenc to Linux would have a driver program
that would just invoke the system ld(1).  I'd think that getting
the ABI and generation of ELF (or of standard Linux assembly language)
correct would be the hard part.

What am I missing?

Thanks,

Arnold

Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:

> Hi Arnold,
>
> The hard part is not so much the compiling but the linking against
> system libraries. Honestly once you have both gcc and clang happy (with
> no warnings), I doubt very much that using the Plan 9 C compilers will
> bring much additional benefit for finding bugs (except bugs in the
> compiler!).
>
> Best,
> Russ

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-29 14:14             ` arnold
@ 2021-03-29 15:08               ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-03-29 17:18                 ` arnold
  2021-03-29 15:15               ` ori
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-03-29 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1890 bytes --]

>
> I doubt very much that using the Plan 9 C compilers will bring much
> additional benefit for finding bugs (except bugs in the compiler!).


The cross-file type-checking does sometimes pick up unpleasantness caused
by type mismatches.
It was originally added to allow dynamically-loaded object modules to be
checked against the loading specification.
It has found a few problems elsewhere, including one in Python where one .c
file included a .h with a certain #define
in scope that another .c file didn't define by accident, causing the two .c
files to have completely different memory layouts
for a structure.


> Out of curiousity, why is linking against the system libraries so
> hard?  I assume a port of kenc to Linux would have a driver program
> that would just invoke the system ld(1).  I'd think that getting
> the ABI and generation of ELF (or of standard Linux assembly language)
> correct would be the hard part.
> What am I missing?


It works very differently from what you expect
http://9p.io/sys/doc/compiler.html  <http://9p.io/sys/doc/compiler.html>:

The compiler is a single program that produces an object file. Combined in
the compiler are the traditional roles of preprocessor, lexical analyzer,
parser, code generator, local optimizer, and first half of the assembler.
The object files are binary forms of assembly language, similar to what
might be passed between the first and second passes of an assembler.

Object files and libraries are combined by a loader program to produce the
executable binary. The loader combines the roles of second half of the
assembler, global optimizer, and loader.

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-29 14:14             ` arnold
  2021-03-29 15:08               ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-03-29 15:15               ` ori
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-03-29 15:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth arnold@skeeve.com:
> Hi Russ.
> 
> Thanks for this.  You are probably right, but it's always good to
> test against as many compilers as possible.
> 
> Out of curiousity, why is linking against the system libraries so
> hard?  I assume a port of kenc to Linux would have a driver program
> that would just invoke the system ld(1).  I'd think that getting
> the ABI and generation of ELF (or of standard Linux assembly language)
> correct would be the hard part.
> 
> What am I missing?
> 

Kencc cooperates with the plan 9 linkers. It
produces neither textual assembly nor elf
relocatable objects, but a machine-dependent
"assembly bytecode".



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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-29 15:08               ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-03-29 17:18                 ` arnold
  2021-03-29 17:45                   ` Russ Cox
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2021-03-29 17:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

OK - wasn't kenc ported to Linux for bootstrapping the early
Go compilers? Is that version general, or not worth my trying to use?

Thanks,

Arnold

Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > I doubt very much that using the Plan 9 C compilers will bring much
> > additional benefit for finding bugs (except bugs in the compiler!).
>
>
> The cross-file type-checking does sometimes pick up unpleasantness caused
> by type mismatches.
> It was originally added to allow dynamically-loaded object modules to be
> checked against the loading specification.
> It has found a few problems elsewhere, including one in Python where one .c
> file included a .h with a certain #define
> in scope that another .c file didn't define by accident, causing the two .c
> files to have completely different memory layouts
> for a structure.
>
>
> > Out of curiousity, why is linking against the system libraries so
> > hard?  I assume a port of kenc to Linux would have a driver program
> > that would just invoke the system ld(1).  I'd think that getting
> > the ABI and generation of ELF (or of standard Linux assembly language)
> > correct would be the hard part.
> > What am I missing?
> 
> 
> It works very differently from what you expect
> http://9p.io/sys/doc/compiler.html  <http://9p.io/sys/doc/compiler.html>:
> 
> The compiler is a single program that produces an object file. Combined in
> the compiler are the traditional roles of preprocessor, lexical analyzer,
> parser, code generator, local optimizer, and first half of the assembler.
> The object files are binary forms of assembly language, similar to what
> might be passed between the first and second passes of an assembler.
> 
> Object files and libraries are combined by a loader program to produce the
> executable binary. The loader combines the roles of second half of the
> assembler, global optimizer, and loader.

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-29 17:18                 ` arnold
@ 2021-03-29 17:45                   ` Russ Cox
  2021-03-29 17:55                     ` arnold
  2021-03-29 17:58                     ` John Floren
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Russ Cox @ 2021-03-29 17:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1027 bytes --]

On March 29, 2021, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> OK - wasn't kenc ported to Linux for bootstrapping the early
> Go compilers? Is that version general, or not worth my trying to use?

The early Go compilers, written in C, were compiled with gcc or clang.

The Plan 9 C compiler was used for the Go runtime's initial
C implementation, but in that context it was only dealing
with the self-contained demands of Go itself, not arbitrary C code
(no standard C library,��much of which gawk would need).

Even in that limited context, we spent a frustrating (non-zero)
amount of time stumbling over bugs.
Standard C has moved on, and the Plan 9 C compilers have not kept up.
They're still fine for Plan 9 C code, but given the choice
I wouldn't throw anything else at them.

Best,
Russ

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-29 17:45                   ` Russ Cox
@ 2021-03-29 17:55                     ` arnold
  2021-03-29 17:58                     ` John Floren
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2021-03-29 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:

> Standard C has moved on, and the Plan 9 C compilers have not kept up.
> They're still fine for Plan 9 C code, but given the choice
> I wouldn't throw anything else at them.

That's pretty definitive. Thanks.

Arnold

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* Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
  2021-03-29 17:45                   ` Russ Cox
  2021-03-29 17:55                     ` arnold
@ 2021-03-29 17:58                     ` John Floren
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: John Floren @ 2021-03-29 17:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 10:47 AM Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
>
> On March 29, 2021, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
>
> OK - wasn't kenc ported to Linux for bootstrapping the early
> Go compilers? Is that version general, or not worth my trying to use?
>
>
> The early Go compilers, written in C, were compiled with gcc or clang.
>
> The Plan 9 C compiler was used for the Go runtime's initial
> C implementation, but in that context it was only dealing
> with the self-contained demands of Go itself, not arbitrary C code
> (no standard C library, much of which gawk would need).
>
> Even in that limited context, we spent a frustrating (non-zero)
> amount of time stumbling over bugs.
> Standard C has moved on, and the Plan 9 C compilers have not kept up.
> They're still fine for Plan 9 C code, but given the choice
> I wouldn't throw anything else at them.
>
> Best,
> Russ
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

Years back I spent some time getting the 9k kernel compiling with Go's
C compilers. It's been a long time so I don't remember everything I
had to do, but it wasn't a straight-across change and we ended up
deciding that since the Go compilers were being maintained
specifically to compile Go, it wouldn't be a good idea to hitch our
wagon to them lest they make some Go-focused changes which break our
stuff.

john

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2021-03-28  8:13 [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10? saif.resun
2021-03-28  9:09 ` Richard Miller
2021-03-28  9:21   ` Sean Hinchee
2021-03-28 13:16     ` saif.resun
2021-03-28 15:08       ` ron minnich
2021-03-29  6:42         ` arnold
2021-03-29 14:04           ` Russ Cox
2021-03-29 14:14             ` arnold
2021-03-29 15:08               ` Charles Forsyth
2021-03-29 17:18                 ` arnold
2021-03-29 17:45                   ` Russ Cox
2021-03-29 17:55                     ` arnold
2021-03-29 17:58                     ` John Floren
2021-03-29 15:15               ` ori
2021-03-28 15:16       ` Paul Lalonde
2021-03-29  4:51       ` Ethan Gardener
2021-03-29  4:57     ` Ethan Gardener

9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

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