9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: Re: [9fans] sad commentary
Date: Wed,  2 Jul 2008 08:04:26 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <f44547c1ceb4a478de931d0372991355@quanstro.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <486B1053.10800@gmail.com>

why are you flaming somebody who's offering reasonable
opinions?

>> Think Pascal: it is hardly the language of choice today, but the
>> principles it enshrines have totally altered the programming language
>> landscape.  C is the utility version, and C++ and Java its obvious
>
> Surrrrre uhhh yeah whatever you say....  Or was it Algol?

this stands out as particularly worth of rebuttal.
the labs were against types.  but in the end
even the labs adopted them.

>> offsprings.  Alef has been abandoned and Limbo remains a very
>> specialised language, but they will also leave their mark.
>
> So does a dog pissing on a fire hydrant.

perhaps you've forgotten that the thread library is
a direct result of alef.

>> [...], but in reality it is the philosophy
>> behind Plan 9 that needs spreading: careful design, generalised
>> objects, simplicity rather than bulk, etc.  Not Rio or Acme, Fossil or
>> Venti, but the environment in which they can thrive.  The environment
>> in which Mozilla is difficult to create so that simpler solutions can
>> be sought.
>
> Mozilla didn't create the web.  The web created Mozilla.

either way, we're back to my point.  linux &. al.
are going a different way, which i don't feel
is very fruitful.  they are working from a different
set of ideas.

it's not that i (or unfairly we — i can't and wasn't
speaking for the "plan 9 community") have an
egotisitical desire to see plan 9's ideas take over the
world.  it's that i see problems that seem pretty
straightforward to solve made difficult.  with
repetition, i feel this process erodes computing in
general as there is no avoiding other platforms.

these are tetonic forces.  there's nothing directly
to be done about them.  so my point is like
a bad poem.  there's no "and then" part.

- erik




  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-07-02 12:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 134+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-07-01  8:25 Eris Discordia
2008-07-02  4:52 ` lucio
2008-07-02  5:21   ` Robert William Fuller
2008-07-02  6:09     ` andrey mirtchovski
2008-07-02 18:58       ` Wes Kussmaul
2008-07-02 19:14         ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-02 21:20           ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-07-03  0:19       ` Robert William Fuller
2008-07-02  9:28     ` lucio
2008-07-02 17:55       ` David Leimbach
2008-07-02 12:04     ` erik quanstrom [this message]
2008-07-03  0:13       ` Robert William Fuller
2008-07-03  0:17       ` Robert William Fuller
2008-07-03  2:16         ` Adrian Tritschler
2008-07-03  8:43           ` Robert Raschke
2008-07-03 10:25             ` Steve Simon
2008-07-03 12:27             ` dave.l
2008-07-03 18:12               ` Michaelian Ennis
2008-07-05 17:14             ` Wes Kussmaul
2008-07-05 17:43             ` Wes Kussmaul
2008-07-03  9:39           ` Rodolfo kix García 
2008-07-04 11:26           ` matt
2008-07-04 10:58         ` matt
     [not found] <6653239E78712E5C0992CFE3@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01 12:49 ` ron minnich
2008-07-01 20:40 ` Iruata Souza
2008-07-01 21:40   ` Charles Forsyth
     [not found] <970551641B57BC6070158BA7@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01  8:38 ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-07-01 20:36 ` Iruata Souza
     [not found] <6AB24A226A77E17024CF16B9@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01 20:22 ` Iruata Souza
2008-07-01 20:30 ` Iruata Souza
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-07-01  8:42 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01  8:28 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01  7:47 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01 13:15 ` john
     [not found] <A5F2B9F56DBEDAA4DDA2E579@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01  7:23 ` andrey mirtchovski
2008-07-01  8:45   ` Eris Discordia
     [not found]   ` <E65EC37F521210B28673D390@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01  9:41     ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-07-01 10:40       ` Andrés Domínguez
2008-07-01 22:02       ` Eris Discordia
2008-07-01 22:40         ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-01 23:43         ` a
2008-07-02  5:44         ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-07-02  6:19           ` John Waters
2008-07-01  7:04 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01 14:06 ` cummij
2008-07-01 14:16   ` ron minnich
2008-07-01  6:47 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01  7:42 ` John Stalker
2008-07-01 13:24 ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2008-07-01 13:32   ` john
2008-07-01 21:35     ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-07-01 21:53       ` Dan Cross
2008-07-01 22:17         ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-07-01 21:55       ` john
2008-07-01 17:44 ` Russ Cox
     [not found] <B7A30661A94738A2B9BE1EA7@172.16.10.200>
2008-06-30 23:02 ` Uriel
2008-06-30 22:32 Eris Discordia
2008-06-30 22:13 Eris Discordia
2008-06-30 22:48 ` Rob Pike
2008-06-30 23:17   ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-06-30 23:28   ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-07-01  6:53     ` bblochl
2008-07-01  9:21       ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-07-01 13:50         ` David Leimbach
2008-07-01 14:10           ` hiro
2008-07-01 15:20         ` Uriel
2008-07-01 19:21           ` bblochl
2008-07-01 22:55           ` Jack Johnson
2008-07-01 12:44       ` ron minnich
2008-07-01 13:35   ` David Leimbach
2008-07-01 13:47     ` john
2008-07-01 13:59     ` John Waters
2008-07-01 14:03       ` David Leimbach
2008-06-30 22:56 ` erik quanstrom
2008-06-30 23:07 ` a
2008-06-30 23:11 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-07-01  8:01   ` Eris Discordia
     [not found]   ` <EBDCEA43BFC1C5EE4070BC1E@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01 20:33     ` Iruata Souza
2008-07-02  8:38 ` DaveL
2008-06-30 21:45 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01 15:40 ` michael block
2008-06-30 19:12 Eris Discordia
2008-06-30 20:01 ` ron minnich
2008-06-30 21:20   ` Eris Discordia
2008-06-30 23:23     ` Iruata Souza
2008-07-01  0:22     ` ron minnich
2008-07-01 10:52   ` John Waters
2008-07-01 11:19     ` hiro
2008-06-30 20:11 ` michael block
2008-06-30 20:42 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-06-30 20:55   ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2008-06-30 23:06     ` Bakul Shah
2008-06-30 23:21       ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-06-30 23:22       ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2008-07-01  9:37         ` Stefan Groß
2008-06-30 14:55 erik quanstrom
2008-06-30 15:36 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-06-30 17:26   ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 17:06 ` Steven D. Vormwald
2008-06-30 17:34   ` john
2008-06-30 18:33     ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-06-30 18:47       ` Tom Lieber
2008-06-30 23:28     ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 18:16   ` John Stalker
2008-06-30 18:27     ` a
2008-07-02  6:48       ` sqweek
2008-07-02  7:39         ` gdiaz
2008-07-02 12:17           ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-02 12:35         ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-22 14:16           ` sqweek
2008-07-22 14:47             ` Kernel Panic
2008-07-22 14:50               ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-22 15:50               ` Charles Forsyth
2008-07-22 15:50                 ` sqweek
2008-07-22 15:46             ` C H Forsyth
2008-06-30 21:19   ` erik quanstrom
2008-06-30  2:21 erik quanstrom
2008-06-30  2:32 ` john
2008-06-30  3:10   ` Tim Wiess
2008-06-30  5:24     ` underspecified
2008-06-30  6:57       ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-06-30  7:50         ` John Waters
2008-06-30  8:03           ` Fco. J. Ballesteros
2008-06-30  2:38 ` Uriel
2008-06-30 12:06   ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 13:46     ` bblochl
2008-06-30 17:27       ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 13:48     ` bblochl
2008-06-30 13:52       ` john
2008-06-30 14:00         ` bblochl
2008-06-30 14:07           ` john
2008-06-30 17:23             ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 17:21       ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 17:34 ` ron minnich

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=f44547c1ceb4a478de931d0372991355@quanstro.net \
    --to=quanstro@quanstro.net \
    --cc=9fans@9fans.net \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).