[9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[john]

Well, this is incidental to the "google.com job search" thread...
In my efforts to see what exactly they have to offer anyway, I'm
trying to send an email from my vmware Plan 9 terminal. However,
when I try to send the reply, I get this back:

Your request "smtp net@google.com alicec" failed (code smtp 663: Permanent Failure).
The symptom was:

Thu Aug 2 17:19:49 HST 2007 connect to net!google.com:
553 5.3.0 REJECT # home users == spam relays


Is this my own mail system rejecting me, or what? I'm not very
well-versed in smtp-foo.

Also, what's the deal with the utterly and completely broken snarfing
and pasting under vmware? I run aux/vmware in my lib/profile, which
I thought was supposed to fix it, but I had to hand-type the above
error because the damn thing is too broken to actually copy and
paste it.


John

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[Gabriel Diaz]

hello

I suppose thats a google reject, use the smtp relay from your provider
in smtpd configuration (see /mail/lib/smtpd.direct and smtpd.gateway
iirc)

gabi


On 8/3/07, john@csplan9.rit.edu <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
> Well, this is incidental to the "google.com job search" thread...
> In my efforts to see what exactly they have to offer anyway, I'm
> trying to send an email from my vmware Plan 9 terminal. However,
> when I try to send the reply, I get this back:
>
> Your request "smtp net@google.com alicec" failed (code smtp 663: Permanent Failure).
> The symptom was:
>
> Thu Aug 2 17:19:49 HST 2007 connect to net!google.com:
> 553 5.3.0 REJECT # home users == spam relays
>
>
> Is this my own mail system rejecting me, or what? I'm not very
> well-versed in smtp-foo.
>
> Also, what's the deal with the utterly and completely broken snarfing
> and pasting under vmware? I run aux/vmware in my lib/profile, which
> I thought was supposed to fix it, but I had to hand-type the above
> error because the damn thing is too broken to actually copy and
> paste it.
>
>
> John
>
>

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[john]

Strangely, though, I don't seem to get the reject when I send
the exact same message from drawterm, which is why I thought it might
be on my end.

John

> hello
> 
> I suppose thats a google reject, use the smtp relay from your provider
> in smtpd configuration (see /mail/lib/smtpd.direct and smtpd.gateway
> iirc)
> 
> gabi
> 
> 
> On 8/3/07, john@csplan9.rit.edu <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
>> Well, this is incidental to the "google.com job search" thread...
>> In my efforts to see what exactly they have to offer anyway, I'm
>> trying to send an email from my vmware Plan 9 terminal. However,
>> when I try to send the reply, I get this back:
>>
>> Your request "smtp net@google.com alicec" failed (code smtp 663: Permanent Failure).
>> The symptom was:
>>
>> Thu Aug 2 17:19:49 HST 2007 connect to net!google.com:
>> 553 5.3.0 REJECT # home users == spam relays
>>
>>
>> Is this my own mail system rejecting me, or what? I'm not very
>> well-versed in smtp-foo.
>>
>> Also, what's the deal with the utterly and completely broken snarfing
>> and pasting under vmware? I run aux/vmware in my lib/profile, which
>> I thought was supposed to fix it, but I had to hand-type the above
>> error because the damn thing is too broken to actually copy and
>> paste it.
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[Gabriel Diaz]

hello

what's exactly your setup?  a vmware terminal on your dsl at home
sending mail through your plan9 server elsewhere?

may be your vmware is trying to send email directly instead of
contacting your other server?

gabi


On 8/3/07, john@csplan9.rit.edu <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
>
> Strangely, though, I don't seem to get the reject when I send
> the exact same message from drawterm, which is why I thought it might
> be on my end.
>
> John
>
> > hello
> >
> > I suppose thats a google reject, use the smtp relay from your provider
> > in smtpd configuration (see /mail/lib/smtpd.direct and smtpd.gateway
> > iirc)
> >
> > gabi
> >
> >
> > On 8/3/07, john@csplan9.rit.edu <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
> >> Well, this is incidental to the "google.com job search" thread...
> >> In my efforts to see what exactly they have to offer anyway, I'm
> >> trying to send an email from my vmware Plan 9 terminal. However,
> >> when I try to send the reply, I get this back:
> >>
> >> Your request "smtp net@google.com alicec" failed (code smtp 663: Permanent Failure).
> >> The symptom was:
> >>
> >> Thu Aug 2 17:19:49 HST 2007 connect to net!google.com:
> >> 553 5.3.0 REJECT # home users == spam relays
> >>
> >>
> >> Is this my own mail system rejecting me, or what? I'm not very
> >> well-versed in smtp-foo.
> >>
> >> Also, what's the deal with the utterly and completely broken snarfing
> >> and pasting under vmware? I run aux/vmware in my lib/profile, which
> >> I thought was supposed to fix it, but I had to hand-type the above
> >> error because the damn thing is too broken to actually copy and
> >> paste it.
> >>
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
>
>

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[john]

Yeah, that's the setup. The server is at the Rochester Institute of
Technology; I was connecting with drawterm but a vmware
terminal is muuuuch better to use in my opinion.

I did consider that maybe vmware is trying to send email directly;
I guess I'll have to look more closely at that.

John

> hello
> 
> what's exactly your setup?  a vmware terminal on your dsl at home
> sending mail through your plan9 server elsewhere?
> 
> may be your vmware is trying to send email directly instead of
> contacting your other server?
> 
> gabi
> 
> 
> On 8/3/07, john@csplan9.rit.edu <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Strangely, though, I don't seem to get the reject when I send
>> the exact same message from drawterm, which is why I thought it might
>> be on my end.
>>
>> John
>>
>> > hello
>> >
>> > I suppose thats a google reject, use the smtp relay from your provider
>> > in smtpd configuration (see /mail/lib/smtpd.direct and smtpd.gateway
>> > iirc)
>> >
>> > gabi
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8/3/07, john@csplan9.rit.edu <john@csplan9.rit.edu> wrote:
>> >> Well, this is incidental to the "google.com job search" thread...
>> >> In my efforts to see what exactly they have to offer anyway, I'm
>> >> trying to send an email from my vmware Plan 9 terminal. However,
>> >> when I try to send the reply, I get this back:
>> >>
>> >> Your request "smtp net@google.com alicec" failed (code smtp 663: Permanent Failure).
>> >> The symptom was:
>> >>
>> >> Thu Aug 2 17:19:49 HST 2007 connect to net!google.com:
>> >> 553 5.3.0 REJECT # home users == spam relays
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is this my own mail system rejecting me, or what? I'm not very
>> >> well-versed in smtp-foo.
>> >>
>> >> Also, what's the deal with the utterly and completely broken snarfing
>> >> and pasting under vmware? I run aux/vmware in my lib/profile, which
>> >> I thought was supposed to fix it, but I had to hand-type the above
>> >> error because the damn thing is too broken to actually copy and
>> >> paste it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> John
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[Lucio De Re]

> Strangely, though, I don't seem to get the reject when I send
> the exact same message from drawterm, which is why I thought it might
> be on my end.

Drawterm to where?  My guess is that you have two very differently
configured mail "exchangers" and the VMware one should more closely
resemble the one you access with drawterm.

++L

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[Lucio De Re]

> Is this my own mail system rejecting me, or what? I'm not very
> well-versed in smtp-foo.
> 
No, it's google rejecting mail (I presume) from what I like to call a
"leaf" Internet node.  You must configure your mail to go to the SMTP
server provided by the ISP that assigned you your IP address.

> Also, what's the deal with the utterly and completely broken snarfing
> and pasting under vmware? I run aux/vmware in my lib/profile, which
> I thought was supposed to fix it, but I had to hand-type the above
> error because the damn thing is too broken to actually copy and
> paste it.

I'd like to know the answer to that as well, but only from an academic
perspective right now.  Maybe in the future I'll need VMware to
provide me with my primary Plan 9 service.

++L

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[Gabriel Diaz]

hello

afaik the problem with vmware was the lack of documentation about
their system, aux/vmware  is outdated and doesn't work well on newer
versions (>4.2 iirc)

but taking in account all the efforts done by Ron and others on
supporting virtual machines, i suppose is better to use qemu, xen,
lguest, etc. and provide them with feedback.

slds

gabi

>
> I'd like to know the answer to that as well, but only from an academic
> perspective right now.  Maybe in the future I'll need VMware to
> provide me with my primary Plan 9 service.
>
> ++L
>
>

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[Lucio De Re]

> but taking in account all the efforts done by Ron and others on
> supporting virtual machines, i suppose is better to use qemu, xen,
> lguest, etc. and provide them with feedback.

The philosophy here varies from the pragmatism of what works so that I
can have what I need (VMware server works almost adequately on top of
Ubuntu Feisty, practically out of the box) to what is good for human
kind (Xen has lost direction and is trying to become VMware, lguest
looks promising, specially as Rusty seems to have a direct beeline to
Linus, but it's too closely coupled to Linux, etc., and you need an
army of elves to track either) with numerous shades of grey in
between.

Then, there is my personal desire to, preferably, have a virtualiser
lying below the operating system (no host "domain" - did I mention
that I'll never get over the initial aversion to Xen that stemmed from
needing Python to get it to work?) or, if nothing else applies, to
make Plan 9 the host OS and, in either case, standardising on the Plan
9 device driver model for all Open Source operating systems.

There I think Xen has a point, maybe lguest also does: Xen is
certainly compelling all OSOS developers to relook at the platform and
Machine Independence in a new light.  For that, I believe we ought to
thank VMware, but Xen is effectively twisting everybody's arm.

Not that this subtracts anything from Ron's efforts, quite the
contrary, but the broader the scope, the more likely we are to come up
with a generic solution.  One that resembles what IBM did right more
than thirty years ago.

++L

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[Gabriel Diaz]

hello

then use qemu, it works on various platforms and works just like
vmware does i think :)

slds.

gabi


On 8/4/07, Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
> > but taking in account all the efforts done by Ron and others on
> > supporting virtual machines, i suppose is better to use qemu, xen,
> > lguest, etc. and provide them with feedback.
>
> The philosophy here varies from the pragmatism of what works so that I
> can have what I need (VMware server works almost adequately on top of
> Ubuntu Feisty, practically out of the box) to what is good for human
> kind (Xen has lost direction and is trying to become VMware, lguest
> looks promising, specially as Rusty seems to have a direct beeline to
> Linus, but it's too closely coupled to Linux, etc., and you need an
> army of elves to track either) with numerous shades of grey in
> between.
>
> Then, there is my personal desire to, preferably, have a virtualiser
> lying below the operating system (no host "domain" - did I mention
> that I'll never get over the initial aversion to Xen that stemmed from
> needing Python to get it to work?) or, if nothing else applies, to
> make Plan 9 the host OS and, in either case, standardising on the Plan
> 9 device driver model for all Open Source operating systems.
>
> There I think Xen has a point, maybe lguest also does: Xen is
> certainly compelling all OSOS developers to relook at the platform and
> Machine Independence in a new light.  For that, I believe we ought to
> thank VMware, but Xen is effectively twisting everybody's arm.
>
> Not that this subtracts anything from Ron's efforts, quite the
> contrary, but the broader the scope, the more likely we are to come up
> with a generic solution.  One that resembles what IBM did right more
> than thirty years ago.
>
> ++L
>
>

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[Lucio De Re]

> then use qemu, it works on various platforms and works just like
> vmware does i think :)

I did, but it was VMware server that (sort of) won the day.  As I use
it exclusively to demonstrate the existence of Plan 9 and/or the
concept of virtualisation, that sufficed.  I forget now what I did
with QEMU (I have upgraded from Dapper to Feisty on my laptop since
then) but I couldn't get kqemu going on Dapper, so I gave it short
change.

++L

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[john]

>> then use qemu, it works on various platforms and works just like
>> vmware does i think :)
> 
> I did, but it was VMware server that (sort of) won the day.  As I use
> it exclusively to demonstrate the existence of Plan 9 and/or the
> concept of virtualisation, that sufficed.  I forget now what I did
> with QEMU (I have upgraded from Dapper to Feisty on my laptop since
> then) but I couldn't get kqemu going on Dapper, so I gave it short
> change.
> 
> ++L

I have never bothered getting kqemu going under Linux, and recently
I've been stuck using only Windows, so the choice is plain qemu or
VMWare Server. VMWare seems a bit faster than qemu, and I've had
better luck getting good video quality from it. I've yet to get qemu running
at a decent resolution in anything but 8-bit mode, while VMWare works
great at 1280x1024x24.


John

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[Lucio De Re]

> I have never bothered getting kqemu going under Linux, and recently
> I've been stuck using only Windows, so the choice is plain qemu or
> VMWare Server. VMWare seems a bit faster than qemu, and I've had
> better luck getting good video quality from it. I've yet to get qemu running
> at a decent resolution in anything but 8-bit mode, while VMWare works
> great at 1280x1024x24.

No trouble with the snarf buffer?  I can't get it to respond to mouse
clicks sensibly.  I'm not a good witness when it comes to describing
the symptoms though?

Makes ACME pretty useless though, I'm not sure about SAM, I haven't
thought of trying it until now.

And that does not include the X copy/paste buffer, I have tried
unsuccesfully to use it, but I have managed a long time without it
under VNC, so I'm not too phased by that.

++L

Re: [9fans] can't send mail, sometimes

[john]

>> I have never bothered getting kqemu going under Linux, and recently
>> I've been stuck using only Windows, so the choice is plain qemu or
>> VMWare Server. VMWare seems a bit faster than qemu, and I've had
>> better luck getting good video quality from it. I've yet to get qemu running
>> at a decent resolution in anything but 8-bit mode, while VMWare works
>> great at 1280x1024x24.
> 
> No trouble with the snarf buffer?  I can't get it to respond to mouse
> clicks sensibly.  I'm not a good witness when it comes to describing
> the symptoms though?
> 
> Makes ACME pretty useless though, I'm not sure about SAM, I haven't
> thought of trying it until now.
> 
> And that does not include the X copy/paste buffer, I have tried
> unsuccesfully to use it, but I have managed a long time without it
> under VNC, so I'm not too phased by that.
> 
> ++L


Well yes, the snarf paste buffer is essentially useless.
I manage okay, though, even if it is extremely annoying sometimes.


John