* [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
@ 2014-04-04 2:03 kokamoto
2014-04-04 2:13 ` erik quanstrom
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2014-04-04 2:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
I've been considered why pc kernel dosen't work for go compiling,
however pcpae kernel does. The 'sources' pc kernel works fine
(from David's talk here).
In the 'sources' pc kernel, there is a definition of fpssesave etc
in its l.s.
On the other hand, no definition in atom's pc kernel.
However, pcpae kernel have them in l.s (named ssesave etc).
I think this is the cause of different behaviours between them.
Am I right?
If so, why atom's pc (not pcpae) kernel dosen't have them?
I also checked two distributions these a few days.
Atom's distribution has libaml libfis, libxml, but
'sources' doesn't.
May I ask you, developpers of both, what the roadway of the
future of Plan 9?
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-04 2:03 [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel? kokamoto
@ 2014-04-04 2:13 ` erik quanstrom
2014-04-04 3:10 ` Kurt H Maier
2014-04-04 4:13 ` kokamoto
0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2014-04-04 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
On Thu Apr 3 22:06:07 EDT 2014, kokamoto@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote:
> I've been considered why pc kernel dosen't work for go compiling,
> however pcpae kernel does. The 'sources' pc kernel works fine
> (from David's talk here).
>
> In the 'sources' pc kernel, there is a definition of fpssesave etc
> in its l.s.
> On the other hand, no definition in atom's pc kernel.
> However, pcpae kernel have them in l.s (named ssesave etc).
> I think this is the cause of different behaviours between them.
> Am I right?
yes, the 9atom pc kernel doesn't support SSE. this is on purpose.
i thought support for multiple types of floating point in the same
kernel was not ideal. and since i think of the pc kernel as there
mostly to support quite old hardware without sse support, and
really new and tiny hardware (also likely with funny floating point),
i thought it would work to just support sse in the PAE kernel.
pae isn't newfangled. it was supported, iirc, by the ppro.
- erik
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-04 2:13 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2014-04-04 3:10 ` Kurt H Maier
2014-04-04 4:13 ` kokamoto
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Kurt H Maier @ 2014-04-04 3:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Quoting erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>:
> pae isn't newfangled. it was supported, iirc, by the ppro.
And every subsequent x86 chip except Banias, for the
exclusion of which I will never forgive Intel.
khm
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-04 2:13 ` erik quanstrom
2014-04-04 3:10 ` Kurt H Maier
@ 2014-04-04 4:13 ` kokamoto
2014-04-04 4:23 ` erik quanstrom
2014-04-04 4:49 ` lucio
1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2014-04-04 4:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 416 bytes --]
Thanks eric.
I cannot judge which is better, though.
Are there any problems using 'sources' pc kernel, anyone?
Please put those notes on the top page of your atom site.
Your pcpae kernel has never problems here so far.
However, I wonder whether I need so much memory
in my Plan9.☺ My machine has only 4GB memory though.
How about libaml, libfis?
Why they are added? Or splitted from what?
Kenji
[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 3931 bytes --]
From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 22:13:49 -0400
Message-ID: <4e70d3ef3441e82d13acf2e7ca090733@ladd.quanstro.net>
On Thu Apr 3 22:06:07 EDT 2014, kokamoto@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote:
> I've been considered why pc kernel dosen't work for go compiling,
> however pcpae kernel does. The 'sources' pc kernel works fine
> (from David's talk here).
>
> In the 'sources' pc kernel, there is a definition of fpssesave etc
> in its l.s.
> On the other hand, no definition in atom's pc kernel.
> However, pcpae kernel have them in l.s (named ssesave etc).
> I think this is the cause of different behaviours between them.
> Am I right?
yes, the 9atom pc kernel doesn't support SSE. this is on purpose.
i thought support for multiple types of floating point in the same
kernel was not ideal. and since i think of the pc kernel as there
mostly to support quite old hardware without sse support, and
really new and tiny hardware (also likely with funny floating point),
i thought it would work to just support sse in the PAE kernel.
pae isn't newfangled. it was supported, iirc, by the ppro.
- erik
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-04 4:13 ` kokamoto
@ 2014-04-04 4:23 ` erik quanstrom
2014-04-04 4:55 ` kokamoto
2014-04-04 5:03 ` lucio
2014-04-04 4:49 ` lucio
1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2014-04-04 4:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> However, I wonder whether I need so much memory
> in my Plan9.☺ My machine has only 4GB memory though.
if you don't have that much memory, i can't think of a downside to pae
over against regular 386.
also, since pae is only 18 years old, we can assert that you probablly
don't have a #9 video card in it or other such old stuff. i have nothing
against the old stuff, but there has to be a way to clean out the closets. :-)
> How about libaml, libfis?
> Why they are added? Or splitted from what?
libaml -> acpi interpreter (from cinap)
libfis -> sata/sas fis/frame en/decoding. (new)
- erik
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-04 4:13 ` kokamoto
2014-04-04 4:23 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2014-04-04 4:49 ` lucio
2014-04-05 4:24 ` kokamoto
1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: lucio @ 2014-04-04 4:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> My machine has only 4GB memory though.
Can somebody please include this in the fortunes database?
++L
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-04 4:23 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2014-04-04 4:55 ` kokamoto
2014-04-04 5:05 ` lucio
2014-04-04 5:03 ` lucio
1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2014-04-04 4:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> but there has to be a way to clean out the closets. :-)
I completely agree with it!
This may not be serious to someone, however:
In Plan 9, there is no author's signature in the sources.
This may because Plan9 was a product of Bell Lab once.
So the programmers were the employees of the company.
It may be the reason why there are no signature there
(I may be wrong, if so please correct me),
However, we can guess them by who is responding to
the question... (I may be wrong).
In the world I've been lived, there is no paper or anything
without signature.
How do you, all the contributers, think about this?
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-04 4:23 ` erik quanstrom
2014-04-04 4:55 ` kokamoto
@ 2014-04-04 5:03 ` lucio
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: lucio @ 2014-04-04 5:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> also, since pae is only 18 years old, we can assert that you probablly
> don't have a #9 video card in it or other such old stuff. i have nothing
> against the old stuff, but there has to be a way to clean out the closets. :-)
I tend to trim down my kernel for at least some of the (old) machines I use. For example:
% cat /sys/src/9/pc/foible
# foible - Lucio's workstation
dev
root
cons
arch
pnp pci
env
pipe
proc
mnt
srv
dup
rtc
ssl
tls
cap
kprof
fs
ether netif
ip arp chandial ip ipv6 ipaux iproute netlog nullmedium pktmedium ptclbsum386 inferno
draw screen vga vgax
mouse mouse
vga
kbmap
kbin
sd
floppy dma
aoe
lpt
ac97 dma
uart
usb
wd
link
audioac97 audioac97mix
realmode
apm apmjump
ether82557 pci
ethermedium
pcmciamodem
netdevmedium
loopbackmedium
usbuhci
usbehci usbehcipc
x86watchdog
misc
archmp mp apic mpacpi
mtrr
sdata pci sdscsi
uarti8250
uartpci pci
vgas3 +cur vgasavage
vgavesa
ip
il
tcp
udp
rudp
ipifc
icmp
icmp6
gre
ipmux
esp
port
int cpuserver = 0;
boot boot #S/sdC0/
tcp
il
local
bootdir
boot$CONF.out boot
/386/bin/ip/ipconfig
/386/bin/auth/factotum
/386/bin/cfs
/386/bin/usb/usbd
There's some unused stuff left over, I'm sure, but it's a smaller
kernel:
--rwxrwxr-x M 12 lucio sys 2108931 Mar 28 20:05 /386/9foible
--rwxrwxr-x M 12 sys sys 2588634 Dec 3 00:50 /386/9pc
Perhaps not much, I thought taking out all the VGA redundancy would
make a bigger difference.
And, for the curious, AC97 works quite adequately, but I haven't been
able to get IL to work, the fileserver connection fails (yes, the file
server also has IL in the kernel).
++L
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-04 4:55 ` kokamoto
@ 2014-04-04 5:05 ` lucio
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: lucio @ 2014-04-04 5:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> How do you, all the contributers, think about this?
I find it inconvenient, but I can understand where it's coming from.
Different cultures as well as different legal requirements.
++L
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-04 4:49 ` lucio
@ 2014-04-05 4:24 ` kokamoto
2014-04-05 4:40 ` kokamoto
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2014-04-05 4:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
>> My machine has only 4GB memory though.
>
> Can somebody please include this in the fortunes database?
そんなアホな!
止めてお願い
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel?
2014-04-05 4:24 ` kokamoto
@ 2014-04-05 4:40 ` kokamoto
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2014-04-05 4:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
>> Can somebody please include this in the fortunes database?
>
> そんなアホな!
> 止めてお願い
Hmm, nupas passed UTF8 encoded Japanese mail.
Sorry all of others.
It means, dont't do it, please!
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-04-05 4:40 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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2014-04-04 2:03 [9fans] what is differece(s) between sources and atom kernel? kokamoto
2014-04-04 2:13 ` erik quanstrom
2014-04-04 3:10 ` Kurt H Maier
2014-04-04 4:13 ` kokamoto
2014-04-04 4:23 ` erik quanstrom
2014-04-04 4:55 ` kokamoto
2014-04-04 5:05 ` lucio
2014-04-04 5:03 ` lucio
2014-04-04 4:49 ` lucio
2014-04-05 4:24 ` kokamoto
2014-04-05 4:40 ` kokamoto
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