From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DCDD1394D for <9fans@9fans.net>; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 20:07:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from sstallion@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id ADF1913D545; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 20:07:00 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1575421620; b=B+56+cEfTqQY6ZpEOhLCSiH9X6NQzTtQLQdnS6XPmbo6qGuPqG reGmmAg5MFtRIcQS62dTSwf2d2W8nHR8yvwYrloPFlKxH15BOdNE788mQlhTjs5h GYRMw7UndxrOO57QjTUCcDoJ1PE1un3atX2BlrpCTjn7mXsvHkuQJznSr3Wjh/GO /Q0mC2xI2AZ7WmGMZclJVMXDtbn2DXKrRqtBYyRBorD/zOrEmBty7lTu4fAJLz9M fzlcLRQAgz2F49knqhtz8vWZG38yaJblQlnRWtjbOLEGJULEKUQzCb5IUDriiOev SGrDTaleOsmU7MdDsPrevwAwp5DbTZ7+3Lrg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=message-id:to:subject:date:from:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=arcseal; t=1575421620; bh=suQW06rJ1D8xQzD8oA8k/LHsVxBDm+PZsMaDt7R91wQ=; b= KsWZZiEHDszZsuSTRYyq6u8bV4cHkXvyPm9qWXSVm7fTGFyq0TZB/9wKLAAmxmzy Dn21iYTfUek5ZP1kBnvVLogeRCUXn5KVDIGzZUkXBZa8gCoCxSKfmhTtOnDAzFL/ +6uQwmkF2mnrX+fVH9Ihex/GppZYmwgEPWDcg7JMYzbcRsJBUqazzw3P297e5HZH 1KiLBuyU4OSVqd6CR/NKDHS5EWJldKW1jN7xcEwb6C2UEjy2n7WZ70Jr7eqpZRtj 4Pa4+YySaslN02QPPDdBZnNuyNOX3OTD6lMMJMLuCNalgmrK6FCltATJ98p6J0om r/JzcGcQVrgirMlGP+8XVg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); dkim=none (no signatures found); dmarc=fail policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none policy.arc-aware-result=fail (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none,arc_aware_result=fail) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=174.86.182.145 (174-086-182-145.res.spectrum.com); spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=sstallion@gmail.com smtp.helo=quuxotic.net; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-ptr=fail smtp.helo=quuxotic.net policy.ptr=174-086-182-145.res.spectrum.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Record found); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Record found); x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 Authentication-Results: tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); dkim=none (no signatures found); dmarc=fail policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none policy.arc-aware-result=fail (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none,arc_aware_result=fail) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=174.86.182.145 (174-086-182-145.res.spectrum.com); spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=sstallion@gmail.com smtp.helo=quuxotic.net; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-ptr=fail smtp.helo=quuxotic.net policy.ptr=174-086-182-145.res.spectrum.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Record found); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Record found); x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudejkedgfedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefkvffuff fhjgggtgfgsehtjehjtddttddvnecuhfhrohhmpehsshhtrghllhhiohhnsehgmhgrihhl rdgtohhmnecukfhppedujeegrdekiedrudekvddrudegheenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvth epudejgedrkeeirddukedvrddugeehpdhhvghlohepqhhuuhigohhtihgtrdhnvghtpdhm rghilhhfrhhomhepoehsshhtrghllhhiohhnsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqeenucevlhhush htvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: softfail (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is not authorized by default to use 'sstallion@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity, however domain is not currently prepared for false failures (mechanism '~all' matched)) receiver=tb-mx0.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="sstallion@gmail.com"; helo=quuxotic.net; client-ip=174.86.182.145 Received: from quuxotic.net (174-086-182-145.res.spectrum.com [174.86.182.145]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for <9fans@9fans.net>; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 20:06:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from sstallion@gmail.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@9fans.net Subject: Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 19:06:57 -0600 From: sstallion@gmail.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6457b3b6-1632-11ea-bcc8-d113f0add450 > seriously, i hear only complaints here, meanwhile 9front is doing just > fine. you are deciding against it for non-technical reasons (or > probably misunderstandings). I have no interest in using 9front for both technical and non-technical reasons. The "community" is atrocious; anyone willing to turn a blind eye toward bad behavior due to technical merit is sophomoric if not abusive. ISTR calling this "elitist fuckery" in the past, I still stand by that. Second, the gatekeeping that was done while the labs was still active was tough, but usually fair. Geoff did a nice job of keeping the spirit of plan9 alive and often rejected larger changes that could have upset the balance. David's work on 9legacy also follows the same spirit; it's a patch queue that pulls from a number of different sources but strives to keep the original spirit intact. I struggle to see the same mindset held by 9front. That said, there is work being done outside of 9front. It's not as public or as polarizing, but there are still people hacking away. Steve