[9front] fqa: request for requests

[9front] fqa: request for requests

[Stanley Lieber]

okay, let's self-police. it is not my intention to clog this mailing list with meta discussion, but it has been brought to my attention (again) that people are unhappy.

what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?

please feel free to respond publicly or privately.

sl

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Rodrigo G. López]

those people have no sense of humour.

On January 15, 2021 7:47:24 AM UTC, Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com> wrote:
>okay, let's self-police. it is not my intention to clog this mailing
>list with meta discussion, but it has been brought to my attention
>(again) that people are unhappy.
>
>what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?
>
>please feel free to respond publicly or privately.
>
>sl

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Daniel Morandini]

> those people have no sense of humour.
Agreed, not our problem 😂

dan

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[roy niang]

Re: Shoah jokes.

I don’t think that they are funny, I also don’t think that they turn
9front into a pro-nazi OS, but it’s not far-fetched to think that this
kind of humour is not appropriate in the first place. Even if time
passed since they were first made, everybody is on nerves regarding the
current (cyber-)socio-political situation, even outside the USA.

The world sucks, jokes about the worst that humanity had to offer do not
amuse me. I’m sure the FQA could be more sensible with its jokes.

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[hiro]

roy: there is no poll or anything going on about this matter.
is there something *concrete* left in the FQA that you're refering to?!

On 1/15/21, roy niang <roy@royniang.com> wrote:
> Re: Shoah jokes.
>
> I don’t think that they are funny, I also don’t think that they turn
> 9front into a pro-nazi OS, but it’s not far-fetched to think that this
> kind of humour is not appropriate in the first place. Even if time
> passed since they were first made, everybody is on nerves regarding the
> current (cyber-)socio-political situation, even outside the USA.
>
> The world sucks, jokes about the worst that humanity had to offer do not
> amuse me. I’m sure the FQA could be more sensible with its jokes.
>

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Daniel Morandini]

Hi roy,

> Re: Shoah jokes.
> but it’s not far-fetched to think that this
> kind of humour is not appropriate in the first place.
I’m curious, which content are you referring to?

> The world sucks,
Does it?

dan

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[hiro]

>> The world sucks,
> Does it?

yes

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[roy niang]

> roy: there is no poll or anything going on about this matter.
> is there something *concrete* left in the FQA that you're refering to?!

I didn’t realize that Appendix L got updated. I’ll keep an eye open on
the FQA to see if something else could be improved.

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir]

appendixt.ms:52

Should probably be removed since it is fixed now, as I see it.

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Thaddeus Woskowiak]

I'm rather new so take my opinion however you like. All of this was
started by one post due to one picture. This is an easy fix. What do
we gain by keeping one picture? It isnt code. It isn't a man page or
helpful text. It's just a comment on a dumb programming language and
its community.

If we ignore it, it just leaves us vulnerable to more of this nonsense
and before you know it a political fork happens. To quote Archer: "Do
you want Harvey? Because this is how you get Harvey."

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 6:38 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The world sucks,
> > Does it?
>
> yes

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[hiro]

thaddeus, thanks for adding your democratic opinion.
i would like to personally deduplicate it before we throw it on the trash pile.

please press F5 and then send a patch if there's yet another picture
troubling your internet politics.

if only we could remove the holocaust and all it's supporters with a
simple patch request, too.

On 1/15/21, Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm rather new so take my opinion however you like. All of this was
> started by one post due to one picture. This is an easy fix. What do
> we gain by keeping one picture? It isnt code. It isn't a man page or
> helpful text. It's just a comment on a dumb programming language and
> its community.
>
> If we ignore it, it just leaves us vulnerable to more of this nonsense
> and before you know it a political fork happens. To quote Archer: "Do
> you want Harvey? Because this is how you get Harvey."
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 6:38 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> The world sucks,
>> > Does it?
>>
>> yes
>

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Juan Cuzmar]

There will always be people who criticize what you do or don't do.
i love how fqa is built and i would keep it that way :)


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 5:13 AM Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com> wrote:
>
> okay, let's self-police. it is not my intention to clog this mailing list with meta discussion, but it has been brought to my attention (again) that people are unhappy.
>
> what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?
>
> please feel free to respond publicly or privately.
>
> sl

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Stanley Lieber]

On January 15, 2021 7:17:55 AM EST, Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm rather new so take my opinion however you like. All of this was
>started by one post due to one picture. This is an easy fix. What do
>we gain by keeping one picture? It isnt code. It isn't a man page or
>helpful text. It's just a comment on a dumb programming language and
>its community.
>
>If we ignore it, it just leaves us vulnerable to more of this nonsense
>and before you know it a political fork happens. To quote Archer: "Do
>you want Harvey? Because this is how you get Harvey."
>
>On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 6:38 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> The world sucks,
>> > Does it?
>>
>> yes
>

yes, i want more forks.

sl

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Calvin Morrison]

We should stop quoting Richard Stallman because he's a fat, ugly, misogynistic lard-ass with irrelevant opinions about products he doesn't use. Well - maybe that's why it's so funny.

Surely we can find some ore edifying quotes about how plan9 sucks and is not open source. 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, at 2:47 AM, Stanley Lieber wrote:
> okay, let's self-police. it is not my intention to clog this mailing 
> list with meta discussion, but it has been brought to my attention 
> (again) that people are unhappy.
> 
> what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?
> 
> please feel free to respond publicly or privately.
> 
> sl
>

-- 
Calvin

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Thaddeus Woskowiak]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:55 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> thaddeus, thanks for adding your democratic opinion.
> i would like to personally deduplicate it before we throw it on the trash pile.
>
> please press F5 and then send a patch if there's yet another picture
> troubling your internet politics.
>
> if only we could remove the holocaust and all it's supporters with a
> simple patch request, too.
>
> On 1/15/21, Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm rather new so take my opinion however you like. All of this was
> > started by one post due to one picture. This is an easy fix. What do
> > we gain by keeping one picture? It isnt code. It isn't a man page or
> > helpful text. It's just a comment on a dumb programming language and
> > its community.
> >
> > If we ignore it, it just leaves us vulnerable to more of this nonsense
> > and before you know it a political fork happens. To quote Archer: "Do
> > you want Harvey? Because this is how you get Harvey."
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 6:38 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> The world sucks,
> >> > Does it?
> >>
> >> yes
> >

Oops. I fucked up and replied to you instead of the list.

I'm not bothered by it as I'm here for Plan 9, not the dark humor
(Though it's a plus.) If it continues to cause drama then so be it.

And after actually reading the alleged blog it looks like their
conclusion will do more to keep the unwashed away than any image in
the FQA. So most likely this will be forgotten for another year or two
until the next politicycle.

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[rgl]

> There will always be people who criticize what you do or don't do.
> i love how fqa is built and i would keep it that way :)

indeed. and besides, the document is full of satire, and i always liked sl's artwork.
those who don't appreciate it can go build another Harvey.

-rodri

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Stuart Morrow]

> what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?

Nothing.

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[William Gunnells]

The satire wasn't so bad. But you can't please everyone. Maybe an
additional section for dummies like myself. Like being more productive
inside plan9. I remember reading on some plan9 website about goals of
accomplishing certain things such as CPU/Auth, Mail, users, to
eventual decentralize and or grid. Maybe more on Plan9 as a Desktop. I
spend a lot of time ssh to a linux to do something and not enough time
IN plan9. I guess it's hard to make the jump and this would be beyond
scope of FQA but would be helpful nonetheless. It's asking too much.
Perhaps I just want more youtube video's of plan9 users actually using
it and being productive beyond how to use install, Acme or draw. More
on forgetting you are in the wrong namespace, screwing up credentials,
constant issues with TLS problems or expire, or your forgot mount use
something. Or if you are cpu into another system copy to this
directory to grab the data and maybe compile locally.


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:16 AM Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com> wrote:
>
> okay, let's self-police. it is not my intention to clog this mailing list with meta discussion, but it has been brought to my attention (again) that people are unhappy.
>
> what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?
>
> please feel free to respond publicly or privately.
>
> sl

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[hiro]

> More on forgetting you are in the wrong namespace

try mycroftiv's grio, it will help color your namespaces.

can't come up with any other responses for your requests, sorry :D

On 1/15/21, William Gunnells <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
> The satire wasn't so bad. But you can't please everyone. Maybe an
> additional section for dummies like myself. Like being more productive
> inside plan9. I remember reading on some plan9 website about goals of
> accomplishing certain things such as CPU/Auth, Mail, users, to
> eventual decentralize and or grid. Maybe more on Plan9 as a Desktop. I
> spend a lot of time ssh to a linux to do something and not enough time
> IN plan9. I guess it's hard to make the jump and this would be beyond
> scope of FQA but would be helpful nonetheless. It's asking too much.
> Perhaps I just want more youtube video's of plan9 users actually using
> it and being productive beyond how to use install, Acme or draw. More
> on forgetting you are in the wrong namespace, screwing up credentials,
> constant issues with TLS problems or expire, or your forgot mount use
> something. Or if you are cpu into another system copy to this
> directory to grab the data and maybe compile locally.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:16 AM Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> okay, let's self-police. it is not my intention to clog this mailing list
>> with meta discussion, but it has been brought to my attention (again) that
>> people are unhappy.
>>
>> what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?
>>
>> please feel free to respond publicly or privately.
>>
>> sl
>

[9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[Anthony Martin]

Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com> once said:
> what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?

Frankly, fqa.ms:59,61 needs more -isms.

Also, as an English speaker

	% dict unalterally
	dict: pattern not found

is pretty offensive.

Cheers,
  Anthony

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[William Gunnells]

It was just an example. Anyways how about a list of software. I know
the name should imply what it is. We have two clocks and a bunch of
faces.tgz. I don't know what dav1d.tgz, tire test, ugh, tracker,
treason. Don't tell me I can already download it and see for myself.
Partial list could be helpful. I mean where would I be without crabs?
I mean crabs.c I guess that came out wrong. But surely life is better
with crabs.c running in rio.

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 1:11 PM Anthony Martin <ality@pbrane.org> wrote:
>
> Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com> once said:
> > what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?
>
> Frankly, fqa.ms:59,61 needs more -isms.
>
> Also, as an English speaker
>
>         % dict unalterally
>         dict: pattern not found
>
> is pretty offensive.
>
> Cheers,
>   Anthony

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir]

> Anyways how about a list of software.

http://shithub.us/git/repos.html
https://github.com/henesy/awesome-plan9
https://sr.ht/projects?search=%23plan9
https://github.com/Plan9-Archive
https://github.com/topics/plan9

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[Eli Cohen]

I didn't even know we had crabs

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 2:43 PM William Gunnells
<thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It was just an example. Anyways how about a list of software. I know
> the name should imply what it is. We have two clocks and a bunch of
> faces.tgz. I don't know what dav1d.tgz, tire test, ugh, tracker,
> treason. Don't tell me I can already download it and see for myself.
> Partial list could be helpful. I mean where would I be without crabs?
> I mean crabs.c I guess that came out wrong. But surely life is better
> with crabs.c running in rio.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 1:11 PM Anthony Martin <ality@pbrane.org> wrote:
> >
> > Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com> once said:
> > > what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?
> >
> > Frankly, fqa.ms:59,61 needs more -isms.
> >
> > Also, as an English speaker
> >
> >         % dict unalterally
> >         dict: pattern not found
> >
> > is pretty offensive.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   Anthony

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[qwx]

On 1/15/21, William Gunnells <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote:
> The satire wasn't so bad. But you can't please everyone. Maybe an
> additional section for dummies like myself. Like being more productive
> inside plan9. I remember reading on some plan9 website about goals of
> accomplishing certain things such as CPU/Auth, Mail, users, to
> eventual decentralize and or grid. Maybe more on Plan9 as a Desktop. I
> spend a lot of time ssh to a linux to do something and not enough time
> IN plan9. I guess it's hard to make the jump and this would be beyond
> scope of FQA but would be helpful nonetheless. It's asking too much.
> Perhaps I just want more youtube video's of plan9 users actually using
> it and being productive beyond how to use install, Acme or draw. More
> on forgetting you are in the wrong namespace, screwing up credentials,
> constant issues with TLS problems or expire, or your forgot mount use
> something. Or if you are cpu into another system copy to this
> directory to grab the data and maybe compile locally.

More and better documentation is an ongoing effort and such documents
are wanted and have been discussed before.  It requires people
contributing more and better documentation.  Perhaps you would care to
contribute?

Besides the FQA, we now also have docs[1], and mycroftiv's grid[2] has
at least a dozen of people using 9front as a daily driver and/or writing
new programs for it, willing to help newcomers.

As an aside, I've sometimes wished for details on many of the references
and photos in 9front propaganda.  Perhaps those could remove some
ambiguities?

qwx

[1] http://docs.9front.org
[2] http://wiki.9gridchan.org, currently down for a short while

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[sl]

> Frankly, fqa.ms:59,61 needs more -isms.

this was pagiarized directly from someone else's manifesto.

which i happen to agree with.


> Also, as an English speaker
> 
> 	% dict unalterally
> 	dict: pattern not found
> 
> is pretty offensive.

that was all my fault, and i'm going to blame it on my
poor eyesight and tiny font (lucm 9, but still) on my
thinkpad x1 tablet. the plagiarism was performed
manually.

sl

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[sl]

added 8.8.5 - Even More Additional Software:

http://fqa.9front.org/fqa8.html#8.8.5

sl

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[sl]

> As an aside, I've sometimes wished for details on many of the references
> and photos in 9front propaganda.  Perhaps those could remove some
> ambiguities?

generally speaking, i think this sort of thing just invites debate.

i'm losing my sense of humor about all this.

sl

Re: [9front] fqa: request for requests

[Kemal]

nothing.

-kemal


Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com> wrote on Friday, 15 January 2021 10:47:

> what in the fqa offends you and should be removed?

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[Anthony Martin]

sl@stanleylieber.com once said:
> > Frankly, fqa.ms:59,61 needs more -isms.
>
> this was pagiarized directly from someone else's manifesto.
>
> which i happen to agree with.

It's lame how the humor is being driven out by transient interlocutors.

Now we have to have this struggle session.

Edit X/fqa.ms/ ,x/[^ ]+(ism|obia)/ v/(capital|imperial)ism/ c/$identityrelation

Вся власть Советам!
  Anthony

.
.
.

Okay, I'll stop messing with you now. ☺

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[hiro]

well it's not their fault that it cannot be black humour any more when
it has become reality in the meantime (or is it, i guess i shouldn't
assume)

On 1/17/21, Anthony Martin <ality@pbrane.org> wrote:
> sl@stanleylieber.com once said:
>> > Frankly, fqa.ms:59,61 needs more -isms.
>>
>> this was pagiarized directly from someone else's manifesto.
>>
>> which i happen to agree with.
>
> It's lame how the humor is being driven out by transient interlocutors.
>
> Now we have to have this struggle session.
>
> Edit X/fqa.ms/ ,x/[^ ]+(ism|obia)/ v/(capital|imperial)ism/
> c/$identityrelation
>
> Вся власть Советам!
>   Anthony
>
> .
> .
> .
>
> Okay, I'll stop messing with you now. ☺
>

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[Eckard Brauer]

as that discussion seems to suck here for a longer time, I'd throw in
my 2 cents too.

There are 2 very good reasons I read that list for (I'm not yet in a
position to attend in the form of a writer, as I currently can't
contribute much): The technical brilliance in a (for me) very
interesting topic and it's humour, sometimes black and close to the
borders, but usually far from politically correct-isms.

First of that remains, but if the list is going to change to one of
those softwashed and political-correct-dogmatic do-gooders lists, it
starts to read more like a communist manifesto or the like, something I
won't read for sure in my sparetime. That would degrade the before
first level tech topics to 2nd level, and install or enforce a sort of
wording check barrier at 1st level.

Regarding the mentioned "shoah jokes" - it's not my sort of humour, but
please keep in mind, that doing jokes with such topics is usually not
really an expression of fun with that topics, but more one of shock or
as a try to cope with the shock of something unbelievable, unthinkable
or unimaginable. Nobody would usually expect people here to justify what
happened in Shoah, even if we don't know personally, and as long as it
doesn't take over the common language use here, I'd rather read even
Shoah jokes (or other maybe inappropriate sentences) that way and keep
discussions on political correctness of speech far outside.

Up to just last week I was glad to learn from you all, since the start
of exact this discussion it started to taste damned frowsty...

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[hiro]

eckart, what's the problem, we can all have a teambuilding event at
some gulag now!

and if you can't look over this superficial shit then you're wrong here anyway.

On 1/17/21, Eckard Brauer <eckard.brauer@gmx.de> wrote:
> as that discussion seems to suck here for a longer time, I'd throw in
> my 2 cents too.
>
> There are 2 very good reasons I read that list for (I'm not yet in a
> position to attend in the form of a writer, as I currently can't
> contribute much): The technical brilliance in a (for me) very
> interesting topic and it's humour, sometimes black and close to the
> borders, but usually far from politically correct-isms.
>
> First of that remains, but if the list is going to change to one of
> those softwashed and political-correct-dogmatic do-gooders lists, it
> starts to read more like a communist manifesto or the like, something I
> won't read for sure in my sparetime. That would degrade the before
> first level tech topics to 2nd level, and install or enforce a sort of
> wording check barrier at 1st level.
>
> Regarding the mentioned "shoah jokes" - it's not my sort of humour, but
> please keep in mind, that doing jokes with such topics is usually not
> really an expression of fun with that topics, but more one of shock or
> as a try to cope with the shock of something unbelievable, unthinkable
> or unimaginable. Nobody would usually expect people here to justify what
> happened in Shoah, even if we don't know personally, and as long as it
> doesn't take over the common language use here, I'd rather read even
> Shoah jokes (or other maybe inappropriate sentences) that way and keep
> discussions on political correctness of speech far outside.
>
> Up to just last week I was glad to learn from you all, since the start
> of exact this discussion it started to taste damned frowsty...
>

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[sl]

> Up to just last week I was glad to learn from you all, since the start
> of exact this discussion it started to taste damned frowsty...

you'll be fine.

sl

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[Eckard Brauer]

Am Sun, 17 Jan 2021 23:00:49 +0100
schrieb hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>:

> eckart, what's the problem, we can all have a teambuilding event at
> some gulag now!
>
> and if you can't look over this superficial shit then you're wrong
> here anyway.

only problem is that superfluous discussion, and that I'd suspect to
get more of such bullshit if the rock has started to roll downwards the
mountain.

And, which gulag would you prefer, some of them are out of service
nowadays... shitty modernism...

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[Rodrigo G. López]

the brutalist one.

On January 18, 2021 9:24:54 AM UTC, Eckard Brauer <eckard.brauer@gmx.de> wrote:
>Am Sun, 17 Jan 2021 23:00:49 +0100
>schrieb hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>:
>
>> eckart, what's the problem, we can all have a teambuilding event at
>> some gulag now!
>>
>> and if you can't look over this superficial shit then you're wrong
>> here anyway.
>
>only problem is that superfluous discussion, and that I'd suspect to
>get more of such bullshit if the rock has started to roll downwards the
>mountain.
>
>And, which gulag would you prefer, some of them are out of service
>nowadays... shitty modernism...

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[hiro]

> And, which gulag would you prefer, some of them are out of service
> nowadays... shitty modernism...

Right, after all those genocides perhaps they don't need it any more,
but I heard great things about the US immigration detention prisons,
probably also worth checking out the work camps in Xinjiang.

Imagine the potential if we convince the ICE that they could profit if
more people could work on 9front.

Re: [9front] Re: fqa: request for requests

[Eckard Brauer]

Am Mon, 18 Jan 2021 11:56:30 +0100
schrieb hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>:

> Imagine the potential if we convince the ICE that they could profit if
> more people could work on 9front.

Naah, that would immediately enforce you guys to do more at the
management level and less directly techical related -- would you really
want that?? I think you guys are doing very well, and sometimes more
people only lead to more confusion, remember (in)famous management
meetings, if you ever experienced (lucky who did not).

And be careful with the Gulags, maybe I'm the one who knows holes in
the fence, wouldn't be the 1st time (last time I got only 1 day in
prison, as they were unable to catch me or get any evidence -- but
other topic).

:D