From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-qt1-f196.google.com ([209.85.160.196]) by ewsd; Mon Jul 27 14:09:33 EDT 2020 Received: by mail-qt1-f196.google.com with SMTP id o22so12689727qtt.13 for <9front@9front.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 11:09:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=Oxd5sSXNGOkSANSA5eAN4tg4ahuPd2g5tu0DQO7ly+4=; b=rQO/MTfQ3E2jIkAN7TdcgoGo3lGyrY1ePH5gYkNwOV5eQUB1Z0U68DEv8p9wdmxAEs QBXe/wFnH4JEaL+saYvXRihQXWxpsaCYFGvJYgOJD4YI2vjPvy56goD2EnvzYpD6zUYV NHHd89KildLatSQ7jMC9aVkl9vZMi2tkJVqSMt2ZmlitCrAKx140IYmlEldhzQ4e9wZy s1A80+wGet2uPeW/5xP4e8eQ6Nj5xNCDpgO9MQD/3kUcDbEqnR9ft60DgUpfQtVjKBXq 0aES0q95dudyzI5id9B4AmkghesnVxuybvEmwLKWpF4Ofv4FICgm+ED6nfLrz72YUQ77 JkfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=Oxd5sSXNGOkSANSA5eAN4tg4ahuPd2g5tu0DQO7ly+4=; b=C1QKH4n3KRK/37nf1oL1+bKw6eZjyQ9i78fcqxrGXE/6PUNV83msuQpK7W5H9lGpAt zcULfpw6pjeWo5dc0CcUqwnllDpX4tQizIudJh1hGhsE7naNN9IasedjxYDAglzVj70u DQwpmXMnBbRSFUIfsyylo1qUs60+cmGd1EBdADRtSY8DoZsph0SC/f7rhcmoaHlXoAKu Yb3bwHEg/Xf7IzipbUj7LEMbT9c3jPNqkLp53Ye4kfhq+QI/TCbN70uTQzrhkfjEko6R YoIAIIWjM85nqTED2S6ybyyc3B9EzbPirvjBXWyc+pvaQHmXqovnOae9MA14+vWYgHcw Rssg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533fTnppO6s6VgRI1AK+jGibzb3DEAWydXzk+FrQo8lpkHCcffOQ RPiiak/dRI+R8g6aw239QAPO1vMCvyI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoGfSiFa7BXxpgga2ZcQgmE7ZPfuvLFFcc1jROHKrPyuq3zxXPEPRM5WKlGhNkaVqODsbJMg== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:554f:: with SMTP id o15mr23371521qtr.278.1595873369927; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 11:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2600:1700:8170:e391:e943:334a:4c71:b25d? ([2600:1700:8170:e391:e943:334a:4c71:b25d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j31sm15383103qtb.63.2020.07.27.11.09.28 for <9front@9front.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Jul 2020 11:09:28 -0700 (PDT) From: William Gunnells Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Subject: Re: [9front] The 9 Documentation Project Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 11:09:27 -0700 References: <7AD2B9C2-6A1C-4F2B-A693-D37EC55B1C82@gmail.com> <44A75FA2-F810-45DA-8264-6DBB810C53F1@stanleylieber.com> To: 9front@9front.org In-Reply-To: <44A75FA2-F810-45DA-8264-6DBB810C53F1@stanleylieber.com> Message-Id: <71F79A60-E16D-475A-92BA-89EF7BAB9866@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: progressive engine metadata JSON strategy STM firewall Agreed. But it's more than that. Linux now makes you seriously lazy. = Ubuntu wants to do everything for you. Uncomment file and =E2=80=99service= blah restart=E2=80=99 barely any research required. Overtime you forget = because the expectations of what a stable service should do. Well maybe = stable. It=E2=80=99s the same with programming. I got stuck doing python for = years because it was what the company required and wanted. So I gave in = and did it. Then I switched company and ran into a situation where = Python was not feasible. It was extremely slow for the task that I had = to complete. I picked C# because they had already written a bunch of = tools for what i needed. I felt like an idiot for a few days because I = had no choice but to deal with bad practices I picked up such as duct = typing, improper casting, static typing wow, and bytes on a stack! With = python over time I didn=E2=80=99t care about the objects. The regret is = huge. Its like starting over when you revert to a really programming = language. Companies today are pumping out bad code and sadly I made poor = contributions to that code because of laziness. > On Jul 27, 2020, at 10:29 AM, Stanley Lieber = wrote: >=20 > part of the problem for new users is that plan 9 assumes any user = understands the fundamentals of computing at a deeper level than even = "power users" of other systems. this was already a stumbling block in = the 1990s, and it has only deepened as operating systems drag the user = experience farther and farther away from the underlying mechanisms. >=20 > sl