From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <9front-bounces@9front.inri.net> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from 9front.inri.net (9front.inri.net [168.235.81.73]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C040626364 for ; Mon, 6 May 2024 18:05:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from gaff.inri.net ([168.235.71.243]) by 9front; Mon May 6 12:03:46 -0400 2024 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([168.235.81.125]) by gaff; Mon May 6 12:03:46 -0400 2024 Date: Mon, 06 May 2024 12:03:44 -0400 From: Stanley Lieber To: 9front@9front.org In-Reply-To: <73EDEC59-DF58-4D74-A2C8-B2090C47F579@stanleylieber.com> References: <944CC9D807FB7E302CDDB114CBE15BD0@wopr.sciops.net> <73EDEC59-DF58-4D74-A2C8-B2090C47F579@stanleylieber.com> Message-ID: <8B3BB77E-F946-438C-9D12-1F0442E40060@stanleylieber.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: out-scaling grid YAML over HTML cloud pipelining cache framework Subject: Re: [9front] AUTHENTICATE failed can't get challenge (imap4d) Reply-To: 9front@9front.org Precedence: bulk On May 6, 2024 11:40:04 AM EDT, Stanley Lieber wro= te: >On May 6, 2024 10:50:17 AM EDT, qwx@sciops=2Enet wrote: >>On Mon May 6 16:34:44 +0200 2024, sl@stanleylieber=2Ecom wrote: >>> > It's a bad idea to run cwfs without a worm, especially in a vm=2E >>>=20 >>> why? >>>=20 >>> sl >> >>In my experience cwfs is very sensitive to unclean shutdowns, much >>more than hjfs=2E VPS providers may sometimes reboot instances, or VMs >>may go down, or 9front may panic and freeze, etc=2E I also remember >>many instances of corruption (iirc with hjfs) under qemu but this >>might have been fixed=2E Either way I think it's too risky to not have >>any recovery method; if the check commands fail it's over=2E Of course >>please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not very familiar with the code=2E >> >>qwx >> > >for over ten years, i have been running 9front associated mailing lists, = websites, etc=2E, in virtual machines hosted at a series of different place= s=2E in that time, i have tried all kinds of different setups, including: > >- hjfs, dump only triggered manually: 1k blocks, all on one partition, co= rruption can be surgically addressed if you're a disk doctor, gets very slo= w when a large partition passes half full > >- cwfs, dump mandatory and automatic: 4k blocks, multiple partitions, ver= y easy to fill cache or worm, corruption relatively easy to address > >- cwfs, no dump: 4k blocks, all on one partition, corruption harder to ad= dress > >in the context of managing the sites, corruption has never been a signifi= cant source of pain, even with lots of unclean shutdowns=2E my biggest prob= lem (by far) with disks has been babysitting the cache/worm=2E moving lots = of files onto the system means shoveling bits carefully into the cache unti= l it's not quite full and then doing a dump to clean it out before proceedi= ng=2E when corruption happens, i move the corrupted file out of the way and= move on=2E when the worm fills up, you're fucked, full stop=2E > >all our disk file servers are vulnerable to unclean shutdowns=2E hjfs is = good for constrained disk space because 1k blocks and everything being on o= ne partition means no babysitting the cache/worm=2E cwfs is good for actual= ly being a file system because it's fast=2E but, depending on your setup, d= ealing with the cache is a huge pain=2E on a system with a huge number of f= iles, many of which are changing all the time, and all of which need to be = available and readily accessible, the way cwfs' cache works and is proporti= oned is a nightmare=2E > >in retrospect it's obvious the most advantageous setup would be to retain= the worm for system files, and create a separate, non-worm partition for t= he huge number of files, many of which are changing all the time, and all o= f which need to be available and readily accessible=2E > >i will now travel back in time and give myself this advice=2E=20 > >sl > > of course i meant to say: hjfs 4k blocks, cwfs 16k blocks=2E sl