9front - general discussion about 9front
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: sl@stanleylieber.com
To: 9front@9front.org
Subject: Re: [9front] Enabling a service
Date: Tue, 07 May 2024 17:54:43 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <AFF9CC3762094D04C360E455696CE7D0@gaff.inri.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <DF589810-D3E5-46A0-A78F-67881BD22175@ecloud.org>

plan 9's design is for the disk file server to live in a locked room,
with everyone else reyling upon it as the single source of truth.  the
idea was that the installation should marshal the resources of
whatever organization hosted it to move as much of the burden of
administration away from the end user as possible, placing it on the
shoulders of the "technical staff." rob's stated dream was for
computing to be a resource you extract from a wall socket, like
electricity.  the system is an octopus radiating out from the file
server.  it can afford to lose limbs, but not it's brain.  this
confers outsize benefits on hapless users who just want their computer
to work.  you will read stories of people at the labs just carrying
around a floppy disk (or equivalent) with which to boot random
computers into plan 9.  start up the machine, and all your stuff is
there, ready to go.  meanwhile, the file server originally ran a
completely separate operating system, and mere users were not allowed
anywhere near it's console.

not much has ever been done to address these original assumptions,
that the disk file server is locked up in a room, and that you're not
allowed to diddle with it, so stuff gets brittle when you violate the
system's fragile self-image.  for example, stand alone systems, with
their local disks, can muster little self-defense against crashing
programs, malicious intruders getting access to the local disk file
server via bugs in their crashing programs, etc.  conversely, being
hostowner on a diskless terminal is worth exactly whatever files that
user has access to on the remote file server, and whatever
capabilities are active within the scope of that compromise.

i realize it's factually true that "nobody' runs diskless terminals,
cpu servers, etc., but it makes plan 9 power users whince to see this
declared, over and over again, when a lot of the power of the system
comes from this very useful modularity that everyone just wants to
throw away.

the 9front installer used to set $service, but everyone wants
something different from their system, even while declaring their
choices are obvious and correct.  after a while we realized it was
useless trying to read the user's mind.  there are just too many ways
to configure and use the system.  in the end, setting these things up
is just not that onerous.  if you need to be service=cpu, you should
be able to figure out how to set it up.  if you can't, you may not be
ready to offer services to a network.

this isn't intended to be snarky.  the whole system is intentionally
simple and modular enough to make understanding how it works part of
the process of using it.

you have to start somewhere.

sl

  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-05-07 21:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 48+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-05-06 11:32 Rocky Hotas
2024-05-06 11:58 ` Alex Musolino
2024-05-06 12:43 ` ori
2024-05-06 15:16   ` Scott Flowers
2024-05-06 15:37     ` sirjofri
2024-05-06 16:32     ` Stanley Lieber
2024-05-06 22:18   ` Rocky Hotas
2024-05-06 22:59     ` ori
2024-05-06 23:00     ` ori
2024-05-07  8:22       ` Rocky Hotas
2024-05-07  8:29         ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2024-05-07  9:03           ` Rocky Hotas
2024-05-07  9:14         ` sirjofri
2024-05-07 21:11           ` Shawn Rutledge
2024-05-07 21:35             ` Kurt H Maier
2024-05-07 21:45               ` sirjofri
2024-05-07 21:54             ` sl [this message]
2024-05-07 21:58               ` sl
2024-05-07 23:15                 ` Lennart Jablonka
2024-05-07 23:16                 ` Shawn Rutledge
2024-05-07 23:45                   ` Shawn Rutledge
2024-05-08  0:34                   ` Kurt H Maier
2024-05-08  0:35                   ` sl
2024-05-08  1:05                     ` Jacob Moody
2024-05-08  1:24                       ` sl
2024-05-08  7:22                         ` hiro
2024-05-08 14:04                           ` Stanley Lieber
2024-05-08 12:08                         ` Stuart Morrow
2024-05-08 16:37                           ` Brian Stuart
2024-05-08 20:16                             ` hiro
2024-05-08 21:26                               ` Stuart Morrow
2024-05-08 21:17                             ` Disconnection-tolerant / distributed filesystems (was Re: [9front] Enabling a service) Shawn Rutledge
2024-05-08 14:25                         ` [9front] Enabling a service Jacob Moody
2024-05-08  3:41                       ` Ori Bernstein
2024-05-08  4:09                         ` sl
2024-05-08  8:39                           ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2024-05-08 14:17                             ` Jacob Moody
2024-05-08 15:49                               ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2024-05-08 16:10                                 ` Jacob Moody
2024-05-08 16:33                                   ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2024-05-08 17:27                                     ` Jacob Moody
2024-05-08 18:00                                       ` Steve Simon
2024-05-08 19:46                                         ` hiro
2024-05-08 19:46                                   ` Roberto E. Vargas Caballero
2024-05-08 20:34                                     ` tlaronde
2024-05-08 14:57                   ` Lucas Francesco
2024-05-08 15:10                     ` an2qzavok
2024-05-08  2:11             ` Thaddeus Woskowiak

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=AFF9CC3762094D04C360E455696CE7D0@gaff.inri.net \
    --to=sl@stanleylieber.com \
    --cc=9front@9front.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).