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* [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
@ 2022-06-01 20:36 Deepak kr. Mahato
  2022-06-01 22:43 ` ori
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Deepak kr. Mahato @ 2022-06-01 20:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

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Hello Everyone, I am Deepak, a 2nd year Electrical Engineering student willing to contribute to the project.
I got introduced to 9front recently and am very intrigued by the project.
I am new to OS Development and have basic understanding of C and Assembly language.
I am currently trying to familiarize myself with fundamentals of Operating System.Could anyone please guide me in what other concepts I should start looking into and how do I familiarize myself with 9front and get started in working with its codebase so that I may be able to make valuable contributions.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-01 20:36 [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance Deepak kr. Mahato
@ 2022-06-01 22:43 ` ori
  2022-06-02  0:27   ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
  2022-06-02 14:44   ` Deepak kr. Mahato
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2022-06-01 22:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Quoth Deepak kr. Mahato <Deepakkrmahato@proton.me>:
> Could anyone please guide me in what other concepts I should start looking
> into and how do I familiarize myself with 9front and get started in working
> with its codebase so that I may be able to make valuable contributions.

use it and fix the stuff that annoys you.

there's nobody here to tell you want to work on; this is
your hobby, you get to decide how you go about it.

there are some old gsoc idea lists, I guess.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-01 22:43 ` ori
@ 2022-06-02  0:27   ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
  2022-06-02  1:54     ` Noam Preil
  2022-06-02 14:44   ` Deepak kr. Mahato
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Frank D. Engel, Jr. @ 2022-06-02  0:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

If you need something to start with, something I personally find 
annoying is that when I connect to one of my CPU servers using drawterm 
I am prompted for my secstore password *twice* instead of just once.

I looked at it a while back and figured out why it was happening, at it 
made sense (I would need to dig in again as it has been a while, but it 
was something to the effect of the first one being used to authenticate 
to the file server before factotum was up, then the second one being 
used to populate factotum?), but I couldn't immediately think of a 
"good" secure way to fix it at the time and have just been living with 
it for now.

I definitely wouldn't mind that being fixed if it can be done safely, 
though this might be somewhat challenging for a beginner, as for one 
thing you would basically need to have at least a bit of a cluster setup 
to reproduce it.


On 6/1/22 6:43 PM, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> Quoth Deepak kr. Mahato <Deepakkrmahato@proton.me>:
>> Could anyone please guide me in what other concepts I should start looking
>> into and how do I familiarize myself with 9front and get started in working
>> with its codebase so that I may be able to make valuable contributions.
> use it and fix the stuff that annoys you.
>
> there's nobody here to tell you want to work on; this is
> your hobby, you get to decide how you go about it.
>
> there are some old gsoc idea lists, I guess.
>
>
>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-02  0:27   ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
@ 2022-06-02  1:54     ` Noam Preil
  2022-06-02  3:05       ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Noam Preil @ 2022-06-02  1:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Hey,

I looked into this a few months ago for much the same reason.

First, drawterm has to auth *to* the remote, to start the session. To do
so via secstore, it loads the auth key from secstore, discards the 
secstore file, and uses the key to auth in (then forgetting the key as
with any other).

Factotum loaded *from the remote end* then gets started, and wants the
keys from secstore. So, it logs into secstore as with any other time
you run auth/factotum in userspace.

In theory, there's a couple solutions:

* Accept the status quo. This isn't a great answer, but really there's
two things doing authentication, so why *shouldn't* it ask for the
password twice?

* Well, maybe there shouldn't be two things during authentication. If
factotum is run *by drawterm*, and that normal factotum is used for
initial auth, then there's no need to run factotum after connecting, and
the password only gets asked for once.

* Or, maybe drawterm should hold on to the factotum keys from secstore,
seed them to the factotum, and *then* forget them.

There's probably a couple options I haven't thought of. The hardest part
is to figure out *desired* behavior. Once that's known, the actual code
should be relatively straightforward.

- Noam Preil


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-02  1:54     ` Noam Preil
@ 2022-06-02  3:05       ` sirjofri
  2022-06-02  3:21         ` noam
  2022-06-02  4:22         ` william
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2022-06-02  3:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Hello,

02.06.2022 03:54:41 Noam Preil <noam@pixelhero.dev>:
> I looked into this a few months ago for much the same reason.
>
> First, drawterm has to auth *to* the remote, to start the session. To 
> do
> so via secstore, it loads the auth key from secstore, discards the
> secstore file, and uses the key to auth in (then forgetting the key as
> with any other).
>
> Factotum loaded *from the remote end* then gets started, and wants the
> keys from secstore. So, it logs into secstore as with any other time
> you run auth/factotum in userspace.
>
> In theory, there's a couple solutions:
>
> * Accept the status quo. This isn't a great answer, but really there's
> two things doing authentication, so why *shouldn't* it ask for the
> password twice?

That's what I currently personally do. Also sometimes you don't need a 
factotum at all.

> * Well, maybe there shouldn't be two things during authentication. If
> factotum is run *by drawterm*, and that normal factotum is used for
> initial auth, then there's no need to run factotum after connecting, 
> and
> the password only gets asked for once.

If you look in default lib/profile that's what is done here: the 
/mnt/term/dev/secstore file is read into /mnt/factotum/ctl to add the 
keys, then the file is cleared. So much for the theory, I never got it 
working.

> * Or, maybe drawterm should hold on to the factotum keys from secstore,
> seed them to the factotum, and *then* forget them.

In lib/profile this isn't done by drawterm, and I think drawterm should 
be agnostic to the factotum system of the host.

> There's probably a couple options I haven't thought of. The hardest 
> part
> is to figure out *desired* behavior. Once that's known, the actual code
> should be relatively straightforward.

What I believe would be a huge step forward: imagine drawterm just has a 
full factotum device like a 9 host. You could just forget about running a 
factotum on the host at all, and just bind /mnt/term/mnt/drawterm 
/mnt/drawterm and call it a day. It would be possible, but someone has to 
port factotum to drawterm, I can imagine it's not that easy because of 
platform specific code.

Some magician who listens could do that.

My 2 cents, as a drawterm-on-windows user.

sirjofri

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-02  3:05       ` sirjofri
@ 2022-06-02  3:21         ` noam
  2022-06-02  4:22         ` william
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: noam @ 2022-06-02  3:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Quoth sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de>:
> > * Well, maybe there shouldn't be two things during authentication. If
> > factotum is run *by drawterm*, and that normal factotum is used for
> > initial auth, then there's no need to run factotum after connecting, 
> > and
> > the password only gets asked for once.

> What I believe would be a huge step forward: imagine drawterm just has a 
> full factotum device like a 9 host. You could just forget about running a 
> factotum on the host at all, and just bind /mnt/term/mnt/drawterm 
> /mnt/drawterm and call it a day. It would be possible, but someone has to 
> port factotum to drawterm, I can imagine it's not that easy because of 
> platform specific code.

That's exactly what I meant :P

- Noam Preil

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-02  3:05       ` sirjofri
  2022-06-02  3:21         ` noam
@ 2022-06-02  4:22         ` william
  2022-06-02  4:55           ` Mart Zirnask
  2022-06-02  5:02           ` sirjofri
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: william @ 2022-06-02  4:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

I use drawterm cloned from git repo via cmd line ./drawterm -a ip -h ip -u username and only enter password once unless
I have ipso in /lib/profile then I use the password twice. 



Quoth sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de>:
> Hello,
> 
> 02.06.2022 03:54:41 Noam Preil <noam@pixelhero.dev>:
> > I looked into this a few months ago for much the same reason.
> >
> > First, drawterm has to auth *to* the remote, to start the session. To 
> > do
> > so via secstore, it loads the auth key from secstore, discards the
> > secstore file, and uses the key to auth in (then forgetting the key as
> > with any other).
> >
> > Factotum loaded *from the remote end* then gets started, and wants the
> > keys from secstore. So, it logs into secstore as with any other time
> > you run auth/factotum in userspace.
> >
> > In theory, there's a couple solutions:
> >
> > * Accept the status quo. This isn't a great answer, but really there's
> > two things doing authentication, so why *shouldn't* it ask for the
> > password twice?
> 
> That's what I currently personally do. Also sometimes you don't need a 
> factotum at all.
> 
> > * Well, maybe there shouldn't be two things during authentication. If
> > factotum is run *by drawterm*, and that normal factotum is used for
> > initial auth, then there's no need to run factotum after connecting, 
> > and
> > the password only gets asked for once.
> 
> If you look in default lib/profile that's what is done here: the 
> /mnt/term/dev/secstore file is read into /mnt/factotum/ctl to add the 
> keys, then the file is cleared. So much for the theory, I never got it 
> working.
> 
> > * Or, maybe drawterm should hold on to the factotum keys from secstore,
> > seed them to the factotum, and *then* forget them.
> 
> In lib/profile this isn't done by drawterm, and I think drawterm should 
> be agnostic to the factotum system of the host.
> 
> > There's probably a couple options I haven't thought of. The hardest 
> > part
> > is to figure out *desired* behavior. Once that's known, the actual code
> > should be relatively straightforward.
> 
> What I believe would be a huge step forward: imagine drawterm just has a 
> full factotum device like a 9 host. You could just forget about running a 
> factotum on the host at all, and just bind /mnt/term/mnt/drawterm 
> /mnt/drawterm and call it a day. It would be possible, but someone has to 
> port factotum to drawterm, I can imagine it's not that easy because of 
> platform specific code.
> 
> Some magician who listens could do that.
> 
> My 2 cents, as a drawterm-on-windows user.
> 
> sirjofri
> 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-02  4:22         ` william
@ 2022-06-02  4:55           ` Mart Zirnask
  2022-06-02  5:02           ` sirjofri
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Mart Zirnask @ 2022-06-02  4:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Hi Deepak,
If you want a good overview of the system, Nemo's book  "Introduction
to OS Abstractions using Plan 9" is excellent. An enjoyable read, too:
http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/9.intro.pdf

Mart


On 02/06/2022, william@thinktankworkspaces.com
<william@thinktankworkspaces.com> wrote:
> I use drawterm cloned from git repo via cmd line ./drawterm -a ip -h ip -u
> username and only enter password once unless
> I have ipso in /lib/profile then I use the password twice.
>
>
>
> Quoth sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9front@sirjofri.de>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> 02.06.2022 03:54:41 Noam Preil <noam@pixelhero.dev>:
>> > I looked into this a few months ago for much the same reason.
>> >
>> > First, drawterm has to auth *to* the remote, to start the session. To
>> > do
>> > so via secstore, it loads the auth key from secstore, discards the
>> > secstore file, and uses the key to auth in (then forgetting the key as
>> > with any other).
>> >
>> > Factotum loaded *from the remote end* then gets started, and wants the
>> > keys from secstore. So, it logs into secstore as with any other time
>> > you run auth/factotum in userspace.
>> >
>> > In theory, there's a couple solutions:
>> >
>> > * Accept the status quo. This isn't a great answer, but really there's
>> > two things doing authentication, so why *shouldn't* it ask for the
>> > password twice?
>>
>> That's what I currently personally do. Also sometimes you don't need a
>> factotum at all.
>>
>> > * Well, maybe there shouldn't be two things during authentication. If
>> > factotum is run *by drawterm*, and that normal factotum is used for
>> > initial auth, then there's no need to run factotum after connecting,
>> > and
>> > the password only gets asked for once.
>>
>> If you look in default lib/profile that's what is done here: the
>> /mnt/term/dev/secstore file is read into /mnt/factotum/ctl to add the
>> keys, then the file is cleared. So much for the theory, I never got it
>> working.
>>
>> > * Or, maybe drawterm should hold on to the factotum keys from secstore,
>> > seed them to the factotum, and *then* forget them.
>>
>> In lib/profile this isn't done by drawterm, and I think drawterm should
>> be agnostic to the factotum system of the host.
>>
>> > There's probably a couple options I haven't thought of. The hardest
>> > part
>> > is to figure out *desired* behavior. Once that's known, the actual code
>> > should be relatively straightforward.
>>
>> What I believe would be a huge step forward: imagine drawterm just has a
>> full factotum device like a 9 host. You could just forget about running a
>>
>> factotum on the host at all, and just bind /mnt/term/mnt/drawterm
>> /mnt/drawterm and call it a day. It would be possible, but someone has to
>>
>> port factotum to drawterm, I can imagine it's not that easy because of
>> platform specific code.
>>
>> Some magician who listens could do that.
>>
>> My 2 cents, as a drawterm-on-windows user.
>>
>> sirjofri
>>
>
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-02  4:22         ` william
  2022-06-02  4:55           ` Mart Zirnask
@ 2022-06-02  5:02           ` sirjofri
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2022-06-02  5:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front


02.06.2022 06:22:49 william@thinktankworkspaces.com:
> I use drawterm cloned from git repo via cmd line ./drawterm -a ip -h ip 
> -u username and only enter password once unless
> I have ipso in /lib/profile then I use the password twice.

As I said, you don't always need a factotum to work on the server. But if 
you want a factotum running after you log into your host, you have to 
enter your password a second time for the factotum.

First, for connecting with the server, second, for starting factotum on 
the server.

Of course, you can also log in as one user and run factotum as another 
user, but that's not so common since you usually have one auth+secstore 
server.

sirjofri

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-01 22:43 ` ori
  2022-06-02  0:27   ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
@ 2022-06-02 14:44   ` Deepak kr. Mahato
  2022-06-02 14:50     ` Stanley Lieber
  2022-06-02 14:51     ` Christos Margiolis
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Deepak kr. Mahato @ 2022-06-02 14:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Hey Ori, Thanks for the reply, uptill now I am able to set up 9front on Virtual Environment and introducing myself to it.
What i am having difficulty is getting the source code on my PC,
the `hg clone http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front` command is giving me
`abort: error: Connection timed out`
I am clueless to how to proceed.


Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, June 2nd, 2022 at 4:13 AM, <ori@eigenstate.org> wrote:


> Quoth Deepak kr. Mahato Deepakkrmahato@proton.me:
>
> > Could anyone please guide me in what other concepts I should start looking
> > into and how do I familiarize myself with 9front and get started in working
> > with its codebase so that I may be able to make valuable contributions.
>
>
> use it and fix the stuff that annoys you.
>
> there's nobody here to tell you want to work on; this is
> your hobby, you get to decide how you go about it.
>
> there are some old gsoc idea lists, I guess.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-02 14:44   ` Deepak kr. Mahato
@ 2022-06-02 14:50     ` Stanley Lieber
  2022-06-02 14:51     ` Christos Margiolis
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Stanley Lieber @ 2022-06-02 14:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

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if you’ve already installed you already have all teh source code in /sys/src/ on your installed system.

9front’s source moved from hg to git. it’s now located here:

https://git.9front.org/plan9front/plan9front/HEAD/info.html

sl


> On Jun 2, 2022, at 10:48 AM, Deepak kr. Mahato <Deepakkrmahato@proton.me> wrote:
> 
> Hey Ori, Thanks for the reply, uptill now I am able to set up 9front on Virtual Environment and introducing myself to it.
> What i am having difficulty is getting the source code on my PC,
> the `hg clone http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front` command is giving me
> `abort: error: Connection timed out`
> I am clueless to how to proceed.
> 
> 
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> ------- Original Message -------
>> On Thursday, June 2nd, 2022 at 4:13 AM, <ori@eigenstate.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Quoth Deepak kr. Mahato Deepakkrmahato@proton.me:
>> 
>>> Could anyone please guide me in what other concepts I should start looking
>>> into and how do I familiarize myself with 9front and get started in working
>>> with its codebase so that I may be able to make valuable contributions.
>> 
>> 
>> use it and fix the stuff that annoys you.
>> 
>> there's nobody here to tell you want to work on; this is
>> your hobby, you get to decide how you go about it.
>> 
>> there are some old gsoc idea lists, I guess.
> 

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance
  2022-06-02 14:44   ` Deepak kr. Mahato
  2022-06-02 14:50     ` Stanley Lieber
@ 2022-06-02 14:51     ` Christos Margiolis
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Christos Margiolis @ 2022-06-02 14:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9front

Deepak kr. Mahato wrote:
> Hey Ori, Thanks for the reply, uptill now I am able to set up 9front
> on Virtual Environment and introducing myself to it. What i am having
> difficulty is getting the source code on my PC, the `hg clone
> http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front` command is giving me `abort:
> error: Connection timed out` I am clueless to how to proceed.

9front does not use Mercurial anymore, it uses Git:

	git clone git://git.9front.org/plan9front/plan9front

Christos

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-06-02 14:55 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-06-01 20:36 [9front] Introduction and regarding guidance Deepak kr. Mahato
2022-06-01 22:43 ` ori
2022-06-02  0:27   ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2022-06-02  1:54     ` Noam Preil
2022-06-02  3:05       ` sirjofri
2022-06-02  3:21         ` noam
2022-06-02  4:22         ` william
2022-06-02  4:55           ` Mart Zirnask
2022-06-02  5:02           ` sirjofri
2022-06-02 14:44   ` Deepak kr. Mahato
2022-06-02 14:50     ` Stanley Lieber
2022-06-02 14:51     ` Christos Margiolis

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