What stuff are you talking about? Ape ports? A package manager? It's unclear from your post. On Apr 8, 2011 9:16 AM, "cinap_lenrek" wrote: > i completly agree with this! > > i'm not a fan of package managers... compiling and installing native > stuff in plan9 is very easy... you untar a file somewhere, run mk > install > and its done... after this procedure, you know exactly what files > where > installed/changed and the process is transparent and not hidden in > replica logs and shell scripts... > > but the image changes when you consider ape ports... these *have* > dependencies and unfortunatly are not self contained :-( > > maybe we just add the stuff in the 9front distribution then? > > -- > cinap > > On Apr 4, 3:16 am, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: >> Ugh. I'm tired, I've been writing and doing stuff far too much this >> past week, and then people start bringing up "what's going to be >> 9front's package manager" as if it were some kind of fait accompli, >> and instantly talking about "how are we going to have the package >> manager deal with config files?" >> >> I think martian67 helped me organize my thoughts best when he said >> "packages enforce a certain structure on things." ... I don't if this >> will come across in text but what I really wanted to reply to that is >> "Oh! OH!! Ohhh yeeesss, let's ENFORCE STRUCTURE!!! STRUCTURE is >> GOOOOOOOD! Must have STRUCTURE!" >> >> Plan 9's design is extremely good at making structure work in good, >> useful, non-limiting ways. What's the system which makes the most use >> of package management today? Gnu/Linux. What's the one system which >> employs structure in the very worst way possible throughout? Gnu/Linux. >> >> Package managers are a big part of the disease. Dependency tracking >> helps create the longest and most brittle dependency chains. Config >> file management isn't management at all. Either you are managing the >> config files on your system or something else is, which way is it >> going to go? >> >> Another big argument is package managers somehow stop things making a >> mess all over your system. Er, no, they provide a way for people to >> patch random shit to fit an arbitrary structure... Is "random shit" >> even remotely relevant in the context of 9front? For fuck's sake how >> much bullshit are we going to pile on this OS anyway? Without, you >> know, making it fit the OS first? Good grief people, THINK already. >> >> Finally... "ohmigosh but the ONLY way you can possibly uninstall >> cleanly is with a package manager" argument, to which I will reply >> with two words: make uninstall. Plan 9 mkfiles already have all the >> files they install listed, it shouldn't be hard to put an uninstall >> target in the files every mkfile sources. This isn't random bullshit >> made to work with crappy implementations of make, this is something >> for which we can make an uninstall target work already. >> >> For those STILL in fucking lust with package managers, will you >> PLEASE stop thinking of 9front as a suitable platform for megalithic >> dinosaurian monstrosities?