On Apr 8, 2011 9:16 AM, "cinap_lenrek" <cinap_lenrek@gmx.de> wrote:
> i completly agree with this!
>
> i'm not a fan of package managers... compiling and installing native
> stuff in plan9 is very easy... you untar a file somewhere, run mk
> install
> and its done... after this procedure, you know exactly what files
> where
> installed/changed and the process is transparent and not hidden in
> replica logs and shell scripts...
>
> but the image changes when you consider ape ports... these *have*
> dependencies and unfortunatly are not self contained :-(
>
> maybe we just add the stuff in the 9front distribution then?
>
> --
> cinap
>
> On Apr 4, 3:16 am, Ethan Grammatikidis <eeke...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> Ugh. I'm tired, I've been writing and doing stuff far too much this  
>> past week, and then people start bringing up "what's going to be  
>> 9front's package manager" as if it were some kind of fait accompli,  
>> and instantly talking about "how are we going to have the package  
>> manager deal with config files?"
>>
>> I think martian67 helped me organize my thoughts best when he said  
>> "packages enforce a certain structure on things." ... I don't if this  
>> will come across in text but what I really wanted to reply to that is  
>> "Oh! OH!! Ohhh yeeesss, let's ENFORCE STRUCTURE!!! STRUCTURE is  
>> GOOOOOOOD! Must have STRUCTURE!"
>>
>> Plan 9's design is extremely good at making structure work in good,  
>> useful, non-limiting ways. What's the system which makes the most use  
>> of package management today? Gnu/Linux. What's the one system which  
>> employs structure in the very worst way possible throughout? Gnu/Linux.
>>
>> Package managers are a big part of the disease. Dependency tracking  
>> helps create the longest and most brittle dependency chains. Config  
>> file management isn't management at all. Either you are managing the  
>> config files on your system or something else is, which way is it  
>> going to go?
>>
>> Another big argument is package managers somehow stop things making a  
>> mess all over your system. Er, no, they provide a way for people to  
>> patch random shit to fit an arbitrary structure... Is "random shit"  
>> even remotely relevant in the context of 9front? For fuck's sake how  
>> much bullshit are we going to pile on this OS anyway? Without, you  
>> know, making it fit the OS first? Good grief people, THINK already.
>>
>> Finally... "ohmigosh but the ONLY way you can possibly uninstall  
>> cleanly is with a package manager" argument, to which I will reply  
>> with two words: make uninstall. Plan 9 mkfiles  already have all the  
>> files they install listed, it shouldn't be hard to put an uninstall  
>> target in the files every mkfile sources. This isn't random bullshit  
>> made to work with crappy implementations of make, this is something  
>> for which we can make an uninstall target work already.
>>
>> For those STILL in fucking lust with package managers, will you  
>> PLEASE stop thinking of 9front as a suitable platform for megalithic  
>> dinosaurian monstrosities?