From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,
	DKIM_VALID_AU,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
	version=3.4.4
Received: (qmail 18005 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2022 21:16:29 -0000
Received: from 9front.inri.net (168.235.81.73)
  by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Aug 2022 21:16:29 -0000
Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com ([173.228.157.49]) by 9front; Fri Aug 19 17:13:36 -0400 2022
Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1])
	by pb-sasl21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AFA7C2F05;
	Fri, 19 Aug 2022 17:13:31 -0400 (EDT)
	(envelope-from davida@pobox.com)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=
	content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc
	:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=sasl; bh=
	5u7semY8kFwoaz2XaUOgnoXpI1tSS9+m2Uxo2urT5ck=; b=eO9wC7wQR9T5Sqg+
	m1sI0UY84vWXBo9nvUw42lwNxGQi5Ls9krx//657o6cbkuC7DWS4q2KAIOFk8o8W
	b1JTNCuAqgwcmIJRyew6Wk2c2acmhPlRKZ3NE++Y7rcYhnj7QgWywAf7tiqSqYEa
	W4wvmShieEzRsJPOAUdfcbMkSAo=
Received: from pb-sasl21.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1])
	by pb-sasl21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05EB6C2F04;
	Fri, 19 Aug 2022 17:13:31 -0400 (EDT)
	(envelope-from davida@pobox.com)
Received: from [192.168.86.129] (unknown [203.132.93.11])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by pb-sasl21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4EABDC2F03;
	Fri, 19 Aug 2022 17:13:27 -0400 (EDT)
	(envelope-from davida@pobox.com)
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=utf-8
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\))
From: David Arnold <davida@pobox.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAG3JMtZfaBaAzp-JzfDenxp7E37wTL0NU0vPKBwAs1eAb6TjDg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 07:13:20 +1000
Cc: David Arnold <davida@pobox.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <C35074E3-E6AB-45BD-86E9-2824E85C3C5F@pobox.com>
References: <CABB-WO-GjapZ2jopMJkSXjVV8yTs0FANvA_0iR2ysodms5h3mA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0B86E12FBB1D4FAD7364472E28455060@eigenstate.org>
 <CABB-WO-QnELdsxzQV8AnpukmEBgH9PMhVVipVQZaEY+bzFYoxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <Yv7TG3YcRMeBsygZ@wopr>
 <CAG3JMtZfaBaAzp-JzfDenxp7E37wTL0NU0vPKBwAs1eAb6TjDg@mail.gmail.com>
To: 9front@9front.org
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21)
X-Pobox-Relay-ID:
 C4CF0216-2003-11ED-8C05-B5C32D76E417-29049682!pb-sasl21.pobox.com
List-ID: <9front.9front.org>
List-Help: <http://lists.9front.org>
X-Glyph: ➈
X-Bullshit: open-source responsive SOAP over HTML browser high-performance database 
Subject: Re: [9front] hackathon writeup
Reply-To: 9front@9front.org
Precedence: bulk

> On 20 Aug 2022, at 05:52, Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> The syscalls problem isn't that we don't know which ones to =
implement,
>> it's that Linux creates and deprecates them at a rate faster than =
anyone
>> can keep up with.  I am positive this is the case worldwide, not just
>> for us -- otherwise, things like Docker on OS X would not virtualize =
an
>> entire OS just to make use of Linux containers.  The engineering cost =
to
>> virtualize a platform and boot Linux on it is lower than the =
engineering
>> cost to keep up with whatever the hell the Linux horde throws at the
>> kernel this week.
>>=20
>> khm
>=20
> Indeed. Even Microsoft gave up emulating a Linux kernel in WSL and
> instead virtualize a Linux kernel in Hyper-V in WSL2.

To be fair, that was largely due to the impedance mismatch between =
Linux=E2=80=99
Unix-style syscalls and the NT kernel model causing performance =
problems.

That said, operating systems appear to have adapted to emulated hardware
better than applications have adapted to emulated operating systems.




d