9front - general discussion about 9front
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: qwx@sciops.net
To: 9front@9front.org
Subject: Re: [9front] Re: removal of /lib/unicode
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:26:50 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <C3798F14D089E2A4E77C74191D5F6E0A@wopr.sciops.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZB/MD3YAfOlEyRLm@wopr>

On Sun Mar 26 06:38:48 +0200 2023, khm@sciops.net wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 05:09:07AM +0200, Sigrid Solveig Hafl�nud�ttir wrote:
> > You sound like a true 9fan alright.
> 
> The only acceptable change is the minimum needed to get 9legacy booted
> on a Macbook in Virtualbox.
> 
> khm

To be fair, some of these changes did not come with much explanation.
I know there has been discussions on #cat-v and on the grid, neither
of which I can follow nowadays.  moody did send a long mail about the
unicode stuff also mentioning /lib/unicode and including a patch
before commiting anything, but I did not see anything about the
noreturn or #pragma once stuff, I don't know what it's for or why it
should be included.  I do however know that there is actual discussion
and that none of the changes mentioned are baseless, both because
cinap and other main contributers are always part of the discussions,
and because I trust their judgment calls given all past contributions.

It's not lack of transparency, the discussions are just distributed
across meetings, #cat-v, the grid, etc.  and no one has the time/will
to try to recap and post them here for everyone.  At the same time,
since the last hackathon at least, large and important changes are
happening, at a much faster pace than before (or I guess, at all), and
touching things that have been avoided literally for decades so far.
I'm along for the ride and just reap the benefits from a ton of hard
and excellent work.  It's inspiring for me to see people not just
patching labs code but taking it one step further and exploring new
ideas and ways to make the system work better, as mycroftiv for
instance attempted to do in the past.  Plan 9 was a research operating
system, it's exciting to see actual research being done, and by people
who actually use the system daily.

Anthony's comments are extremely funny and ironic to me.  I challenge
anyone to show how any of these changes are a departure from the plan9
spirit or dogma or whatever, how exactly they are distasteful and most
importantly how the actual problems adressed they would solve better.
"fondling the rio artwork" is especially delicious.

Besides the 9frontlegacy don't touch the modern artwork'ing, I think
that there is a takeaway here, and it's the need to be as explicit as
possible with such changes.  Again to their credit, moody and others
have taken great pains to be as transparent as possible with larger
changes, and so far even just longer commit messages have worked well.
Mistakes, lapses can happen.  Or the changes are obvious and some are
like me just ignorant.  I can try to find the discussions in my
ever-growing backlog, or just ask here.  I therefore urge anyone this
perplexed before the commit log to show some courtesy and just ask.

And yeah, in the end, that's just like, my opinion man.  Apologies for
the long, perhaps unnecessary mail, and for anything obvious I might
have missed.

Thanks to all and cheers,
qwx

  reply	other threads:[~2023-03-26 13:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 19+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-03-26  2:23 [9front] " sl
2023-03-26  2:33 ` [9front] " Anthony Martin
2023-03-26  2:55   ` Jacob Moody
2023-03-26  3:05     ` sl
2023-03-26  3:25       ` Jacob Moody
2023-03-26  3:08     ` sl
2023-03-26  3:09   ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2023-03-26  4:37     ` Kurt H Maier
2023-03-26 13:26       ` qwx [this message]
2023-03-26 14:27         ` ori
2023-03-26 17:43           ` Jacob Moody
2023-03-26 14:52   ` cinap_lenrek
2023-03-26 19:27   ` hiro
2023-03-26 19:42     ` [9front] " Michael Misch
2023-03-26 20:46       ` hiro
2023-03-26 23:24       ` Kurt H Maier
2023-03-27 21:40       ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2023-03-27 22:15         ` hiro
2023-03-28  0:01           ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=C3798F14D089E2A4E77C74191D5F6E0A@wopr.sciops.net \
    --to=qwx@sciops.net \
    --cc=9front@9front.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).