From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <9front-bounces@9front.inri.net> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from 9front.inri.net (9front.inri.net [168.235.81.73]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1934E26002 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2024 10:03:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-oa1-f47.google.com ([209.85.160.47]) by 9front; Mon Aug 5 04:02:23 -0400 2024 Received: by mail-oa1-f47.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-26110765976so408588fac.1 for <9front@9front.org>; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1722844942; x=1723449742; darn=9front.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=L3DJLiHInLL2F3u0kW0cievUD5aZuj2AekMvXxErcss=; b=Ov0qtR1DmbVwbs8AkZIjSw9YjwQqydsKTaB8ARv/VS/mZWqc60okjxKlOLeG21/cxS kWnjQ81VRHZHKktUPJ8Au4t4JHtckAc/Tdme62h6JfY7geIJPbY1y/EQnqdVvbgxT+3L ydz+luuqNMJQh3Betxr6yINZN/M2gefyMV5N3KWKG7ujDUR5fttjUjDMWW4qa5xSQjyd 5Tk8trBIhfMU8EXUKLZJgbom3vjQ2le57H6nFHKLUnEdwj+inmi6C/M9NRCeXV5CKJEG BM10FibGA4ZJubPUYnzXaL6rGOy8yEHnUSrdNU+z08QE8AnekeExTYSW41Wc+7KLE/I3 ZBRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1722844942; x=1723449742; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=L3DJLiHInLL2F3u0kW0cievUD5aZuj2AekMvXxErcss=; b=Nb2FbPlWkR7xv8K6K3CDB1LuLV1z0JxfPmKok+ykuHDztHPuMhRmn9Zsfl3c4qKuql kfmC+5DeF3ZP++xwz2ZSgCBjpVrc770Aovm3fnTsYBVyDtiUMH/BHWaADkWOlWlo+311 KUPiy7pMq6yVW+eBz1OTimgONJ6s7XqeuF0U6vT3Hcqzu1zJc/z0EVEoRKDe8dBdobXl +8Hf9scnR6e6y7NNyi34z1VKjuw9D3KftXGks3t2Z9ibimGWVfT4T+4lMjH31/lRgF4J SnhZrYiZgZQj24cqsyhP1AQ9YInIryLDpRW9Q8lp6N8tNka2P1ToHQBzG5W3fdgnZhih 9WaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwidB+aNxRHNt65KZMFYq/gXc7r2enWJCozN0uTKa03D7VcEPxb sCdCM6M9Vzt12Rb0c6l+TrGXVWiI00SsSV4/8YQpPhhpyaUUs5+ZG6GjBsWzsjhRxKbnrPVCIoO YGSor5eRTiRLqnvWoFtJUbhtKSQDXxD8IRQk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFrrxBzWD7kR1AyZFc8Ux5SRjlQ7Ri1gka9BotkQFtYqTXN5meTkhpGG39vdYks8yoHNxEkLgogY4kH1Fec21c= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:1a90:b0:268:afc3:64cb with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-268afc3781cmr2878841fac.8.1722844941599; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 01:02:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6FB99C7720140A4B3969EA601A4B3588@eigenstate.org> In-Reply-To: From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 10:02:10 +0200 Message-ID: To: 9front@9front.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: template-oriented high-performance interface Subject: Re: [9front] Thoughts on Wayland? Reply-To: 9front@9front.org Precedence: bulk > In that respect, it's strictly a worse fit for Plan 9 than X, which at > least is designed with networking in mind, I suspect? Both Plan 9 and X are designed with networking in mind. > Though, there is a tool for networking transparency on Linux with > Wayland, so it's not impossible. I bet they are multiplexing all graphical output as a lossy video stream. Careful design from the ground up on the remote protocol level is needed to solve the problem in a lossless, bandwidth-efficient, and roundtrip-reducing way. And then all applications using the protocol have to use it in the right way and not try to sabotage all the efforts that got put into this mechanism: modern x11 programs suffer from the same problem that wayland does, kde/gnome/google/mozilla et all started to use x11 inefficiently, introducing bad round-trip-sensitive implementations for unimportant cosmetic features like animations.