From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 11556 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2021 05:45:19 -0000 Received: from 1ess.inri.net (216.126.196.35) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 8 Feb 2021 05:45:19 -0000 Received: from mail-ej1-f43.google.com ([209.85.218.43]) by 1ess; Sat Feb 6 19:21:57 -0500 2021 Received: by mail-ej1-f43.google.com with SMTP id bl23so19024326ejb.5 for <9front@9front.org>; Sat, 06 Feb 2021 16:21:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=3eipIdZZxvkLtoy73yUfWZEyngnx1u7pDukkJ6gnxFA=; b=KJm6E53fuA9P+nWXu2Z+IkU+BpRi/5Tq4TzFjIemPUSLtWgOTKK+t5M9ZoUSzvVeQ9 6fPZVCPNewsxR84ZvaTupm7kMJUfdYUGnNyz+gZjDJ+ohMVRlI7UDI5ok3UPKvURtW3t ABOXpTeSa9G0oh2RoeYZx/jKWPLiy19VO0uXuw+UEAkbRu4xDHc8y7OmG9AbIGOu68XG lx360bm4DVQsCNX6gUvG5O5WjFnMQo6ubjrCY6uX668wp8v+TNTJteOdzMMgTsMiYclM Xar6WDKOPKS7ASQU0+gckqF/l2rNTJEyZ5hXDZ6toNFB+yMDoLKRpPi6kWfBqbICE0qy iH3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=3eipIdZZxvkLtoy73yUfWZEyngnx1u7pDukkJ6gnxFA=; b=eH8ouP87ggBkktdxJFojRA9D4JW5SOZZ7J8Jvu7RduvxrDA6Twa8QE3YwbodR9acwL 6d9Rsjxnnkr1kbZ4Lg9cUw4z63kccHM7CJw5Pr337JOPkBPjYhvWVLDTR+ngu2U44IPK zhJrT4YLQVLH5oYWPnXorCFasDU9h9BEzhvyfpQuVcJgKxm3uBSI//FGlxj20GC5E45U T3cYFsvrWTxyzJbqRga2jJCL8FwGJCv1Q//KXGNZzJaX5U9lMmd7kYO8oMuUUTcf4NMH vnYhWazlX2AUHnwXI7vlvrmJIE1njbF/GqWxI3Rvh1chPneMkgjZkH62D9T3p3CW+eI5 trkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530qzifCxra5UG3gwGb1kse16dlQb9Jn8+16oiFXPAbzXpD2QhUK r1/s30kW0jupYv0sBEZ0o1wIFu523ugHTE4EvwIC98r6dt4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyMSmLN1diMmhF3su0qJMFOs3PPnJhYPKzvX8zkKV5FILQJPmyrShIYV3CYGxf//pYe3sUDUBQ6W2WpQvwru/Y= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:259a:: with SMTP id m26mr10745357ejb.399.1612657304615; Sat, 06 Feb 2021 16:21:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:906:3957:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 16:21:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20210207000200.pQpaa%steffen@sdaoden.eu> References: <20210206222512.D10mn%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <20210207000200.pQpaa%steffen@sdaoden.eu> From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 01:21:43 +0100 Message-ID: To: 9front@9front.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: immutable managed property solution Subject: Re: [9front] maildir history Reply-To: 9front@9front.org Precedence: bulk or we just store mail in the cloud, then we will not be allowed to make an index, we will not be allowed to seek and we need one GET request and 9 captchas for accessing one single mail. what is so off-putting about ordering data in files? On 2/7/21, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: > Kurt H Maier wrote in > : > |On Sat, Feb 06, 2021 at 11:25:12PM +0100, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: > |> Which means re-encoding as necessary to avoid ^From_ quoting, > |> which not many do support (my s-nail for example does not :). > | > |No, on Plan 9 it still sucks, because you're writing a whole new version > |of the file every single time you add or delete a message from an mbox > |store. This has consequences for big churny mailstores, and they fill > > That can be optimized. For POSIX mailx with "append" set, and if > i recall correctly, my s-nail correctly extends this via > appending. Removal, ok. > > |up disks fast. mbox is better with MIME encoding but it still > |irreparably sucks as a storage format even when you ignore parsing > |problems. I hate it and I want it to die. > > I seem to recall even dovecot was going away from it, though if > you control a file and have an external info aka index file or > structure, just like git has for its database, no modifications > actually occur but setting a flag or two, with occasional cleanup > by writing a new version top down. Well. I once read on > a FreeBSD list about an administrator saying "my boss as a mailbox > with millions of files, it is no fun. We use archeopterix to > index it" (at least in spirit, been a few years). Like so maildir > is a problem, too. Need a db with index to make that acceptable, > wasn't it Zawinski who talked in the 90s, for Netscape.... > > https://www.jwz.org/doc/mailsum.html > > There you go, 1998: > > Right now I'm looking at a folder in 3.0. It has 15,466 messages > in it. Selecting this folder takes less than a second (it's hard > to eyeball it, but I'd say it takes about 1/2 to 3/4 second from > when I click to when I see the message summary on the > screen). The BSD mbox file is 57.2MB (1.2 million lines) and the > summary file is 1.3MB (2% of the size of the folder.) > > This is on a P266 with a local IDE disk (Linux.) > > --steffen > | > |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, > |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one > |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off > |(By Robert Gernhardt) >