From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <9front-bounces@9front.inri.net> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from 9front.inri.net (9front.inri.net [168.235.81.73]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE8A264EF for ; Wed, 8 May 2024 04:14:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-ej1-f43.google.com ([209.85.218.43]) by 9front; Tue May 7 22:11:45 -0400 2024 Received: by mail-ej1-f43.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a59a5f81af4so985192266b.3 for <9front@9front.org>; Tue, 07 May 2024 19:11:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1715134301; x=1715739101; darn=9front.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=mRcYu7TQywWRTqC+MoeKaKsNiHaKkjmipKMI71Siijo=; b=SUUcz3U+4qv/AHUl2TEG15LjdVS8fziTBvZL+tCAGFzsfj/+xEp68BBIaTBN1XmL70 EXNgA10r+B3etPgkjGRDRJ7bRDhBOcUx5vPCYjy5fioszh1HTqoSJPzGzumsWD/Ufm2M xX6S7nq20qh9XZtVL8r3+Z/BLfXEJ2fkpKF6Y9UhSg0MxcFxJESB8O4dNwI/08tpvKHj 5CL2/tPyO2swHrJ5/+e2DndSj0+aesMczO5BjskaqF3Ge7c9k2UV1QM/KlUPHJ5dvda/ Xj253MefOW9t+yodLQDhNDz+h/esqhNVZytgnLFjoFW0v9daSttci5/DLdO96dFHiNa0 PofA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1715134301; x=1715739101; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mRcYu7TQywWRTqC+MoeKaKsNiHaKkjmipKMI71Siijo=; b=KC0eMQhpBSIJxKE4UhSU7Ou5M0ahXHLoXysdGmzjeGXiI/2AFBHhJyBHNrqnY93ec6 wIUzPoOluL5mOMWmcAoKZk9zXanrqKndePB3P6G6WhOMp8KchxhKRzTSsuCW9lShpvUy HamIjrDOne3MuRrj2XrGVgJAGxH6YfZuULUCXgQx3a21pDLqMkiYxvwa6n5I0xuy7X6z +QC3uMtERQpJ1P+uvpWds3SO4GIIju+Z2159W4mVt+Ztqou/81IsdMyhOwSKvQ/ZgqVq Hu4G0h6LLp7X3DxJWIaksdjEL8KJnFXghJp7ARumOvhoVoYN33ogfJNlA21ZRIf4TZ1p 03hA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzQ4S44CxGsYuc1lgJRbq86xP4yy/hPyt2F5+GHBz5MzzqsiCzQ oGsG740aF6EuC0yY8jMJmZPLALuZqiJMFr3+AzYGFgkIANsR25kNcvp3G0v6/R+k0gIe6Ogt98P uS5nYxzdSukaoubqz9E8NEn3ZRUpmkzcx X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGSF4tx7N2hmvBwxgHgpMGOYwwyg8HpXrIxc2lVzyrMYLDvxJjgCvl550r9TqHmkqrVYRLf66IGsEmcBY/3IPs= X-Received: by 2002:a50:d516:0:b0:572:72fc:df54 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5731d9db17dmr903533a12.22.1715134300834; Tue, 07 May 2024 19:11:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4azdxd3t3x3whti6dlyfn75pl4wzodvs3gzsbu5t7xcnqmnuuc@kxfwuan7u5mw> In-Reply-To: From: Thaddeus Woskowiak Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 22:11:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: 9front@9front.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: virtual ISO-certified engine element SOAP rich-client method Subject: Re: [9front] Enabling a service Reply-To: 9front@9front.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, May 7, 2024 at 6:22=E2=80=AFPM Shawn Rutledge wr= ote: > > On May 7, 2024, at 2:14=E2=80=AFAM, sirjofri wrote: > > In the other case, where you want your machine to always serve services= , that machine is most probably a cpu by definition. Nowadays there's no re= ason to not run a cpu if you need services. In the beginning there were dif= ferent kernels if I remember correctly, which meant a big difference, but n= owadays it's only a different configuration. > > I just don=E2=80=99t see much point in keeping it as split as it still is= . For some reason a 9front install is a term by default, and not being set= up to run services by default seems like a needless limitation. Why is learning to setup a cpu server needless? > But if you switch to cpu, it=E2=80=99s a little extra work to get it to b= e a useful machine to sit in front of (even though =E2=80=9Ctext mode=E2=80= =9D is already graphical), which is also a needless limitation. termrc > It took me a few hours to learn how to customize the startup process at f= irst, and I didn=E2=80=99t memorize it, so next time I=E2=80=99d have to lo= ok at the machines on which I already did it to remember what exactly I did= . This track explains everything: https://kmfdm.bandcamp.com/track/anarchy-god-and-the-state-mix > When a newbie starts with one machine and then wants to try starting up = network services shortly afterwards, it should be more directly possible, I= MO; and the directory-of-services approach seems like a good one to me, whi= ch should not be ruled out by having a term by default. What stopped you from using listen or even listen1 in termrc? Do you think that setting cpu cripples things? Its just an env variable the bootrc script uses to see wtf it is supposed to do. read through boot(8) > Unless you are actually in a lab environment with shared machines, nobody= expects a diskless terminal anymore; and it=E2=80=99s not a great introduc= tion to what Plan 9 can do, to have that be the default. All of my plan 9 machines are tcp or pxe booted diskless terminals unless they are a laptop or my cpu/disk server. I guess my house is a lab - Ozone Labs, est. 2018. It's dumb to want a building scattered with disks holding duplicate data - one disk to rule them all, one command to bind(1) them. If the terminal goes bad I throw it away and plug a new one in, change the ether=3D in ndb and move on with life. Testing a new machine? just plug it in and setup ndb. Gigabit and 10gb are really cheap and you wont notice you don't have a disk in the machine. > If the majority thinks there needs to continue to be a distinction though= , then maybe the installer should ask about the machine=E2=80=99s intended = role at installation time, and try to achieve a suitable out-of-the-box exp= erience for all the choices. You can do anything with a terminal install, which by default is a newbie friendly experience, including turning it into a graphical cpu/disk/terminal/router/networking thing. Its so damn simple to achieve these things that I cant believe I am wasting my time writing this. RTFM over and over, because you learn by listening. Later on we will tell you how to setup a cpu server just as you would in any colorful German operating system.