From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10750 invoked from network); 7 May 2022 15:16:55 -0000 Received: from 9front.inri.net (168.235.81.73) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 May 2022 15:16:55 -0000 Received: from mail-yw1-f175.google.com ([209.85.128.175]) by 9front; Sat May 7 11:14:44 -0400 2022 Received: by mail-yw1-f175.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-2f83983782fso107738677b3.6 for <9front@9front.org>; Sat, 07 May 2022 08:14:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=y+vWnM95WQKdKAw78qdGhK3DV6QCn0YAt/0kIH5SxmI=; b=KIMUsZvJ4ttyc0t9VLZJlisjoeuvG0utDnfZzMxZt9YnG+GRVYG4gPFXyIR1ruHExI NTfolnZD0tB9YL7t7E/LrkLEj+onjtx9z0Wu8nIKvNkG5OiayO79dGoW0sxfEsJ38LTe OqEv+8YE0JnMYQCzer5BYkZSAZjO0ZJ8cni9SxbYgn/qdgQVskVNB5RAprFmE7TtRb3t LaqPulJO2iW7PbJT2dRuMpG03TOP5wESMNMKhXWxAzFeQNNR397SBUi6quihFKKddHys EhQh9rMT/6e/g9klLM5/21Ofweg6iodL2hAylWArAd1yyu77i8MWl/HUrdLjTEMmVXl4 XWfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=y+vWnM95WQKdKAw78qdGhK3DV6QCn0YAt/0kIH5SxmI=; b=sBVLg1qQ0NwOKyUoP8mD++4bujfXCu5DSZV57zEb0aSzC8ElwAzjIr+JaasCEuE09v Q3ZqU1TWKM6djIEmeTtmf8VqlKchNyW00Yio48s4wjDDzizBc/qxX95JvdogVVSTm0A9 Xee0gWwkSWJrl3Yfc2cRhQuEk52wXP3uDhj+oIYKwobydiOpJGAbO3VciJr0GZp/o366 FmMDIRb6/4zPT/AjgGlCac99kPblbfmyqRbBaKDHHkAeHhsjlTbvqa/yeU1/YiQcraI1 S3ybMpG1Ur6/Ie1mZrikPBq0spnnu3YjOaXPeejtqnpLrTyS80iAReGXVRqXx1wQYtRG KZHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531ps55Tn4bPVdp1DD/62LjsPjpW0ELUWvoiyL9gjcdrMz85if7i XPBP9k+dKb2IYBs/RFsGQCJyMuzvzv4DwQR5q0+wxYFHD1c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz8VRJRtiQ0POafnHUjYLMarPk3jfRM3DFhcBLmU9ZMJaWXdnA4fSwlMKuAIJ6Dy5hWUPCTgZoNmS6AGvnKP/U= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:dfd1:0:b0:2fb:2c3f:449d with SMTP id i200-20020a0ddfd1000000b002fb2c3f449dmr6841482ywe.409.1651936480013; Sat, 07 May 2022 08:14:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5DE4970553D3B1D9DF93417DB0A9AD4C@thinktankworkspaces.com> In-Reply-To: From: Thaddeus Woskowiak Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 11:14:37 -0400 Message-ID: To: 9front <9front@9front.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: replication hypervisor dependency markup Subject: Re: [9front] build iso from arm64 Reply-To: 9front@9front.org Precedence: bulk I dont think it's fair to blame Arm as no one bothered to build a standard Arm platform in the same vein as the PC. Before the IBM PC XT and later AT standard existed the home computer industry was in a similar situation with random intel, wd, zilog, motorola systems kicking about with incompatibilities between them. IBM was very influential and relevant at the time so it stands to reason that the PC was in a unique position to take off. Who is going to IBM the Arm platform? Microsoft? Amazon? Google? Facebook? They're too busy building ant farms. The PC platform is an agreement between manufacturers to use a standard boot firmware (bios/uefi), standard hardware interfaces (e.g. pci, ata, vesa, etc, ac97/hda), and booting procedures (mbr/gpt). Hardware is wired predictably so video, keyboard, com ports, timers, etc are always on the same addresses, interrupt and dma ports meaning drivers don't have to be tweaked or re-written between vendors. Nowadays we have such complex (batshit even) hardware that we need to manage it via a subsystem which we know as acpi that adds a whole layer of abstraction to talk to fans and firmwares. The closest we have had is the Microsoft Windows RT Surface which bolted wintel PC baggage to Arm such as uEFI and ACPI. Basically an Arm PC. Raspberry pi is an honorable mention by fitting their firmware with pc like booting from usb, pxe and so on but pi firmware isn't portable as the pi hardware is batshit wherein the gpu handles the bootstrapping, not the Arm cpus.... It would be nice to have a platform controller, firmware and api using 9p so we can mount and walk the platform controller on boot then find and configure what we need. Though, for anything to succeed, it would need the weight of an IBM behind it.