From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 11576 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2021 14:05:46 -0000 Received: from 1ess.inri.net (216.126.196.35) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 Feb 2021 14:05:46 -0000 Received: from mail-oi1-f174.google.com ([209.85.167.174]) by 1ess; Mon Feb 22 09:00:35 -0500 2021 Received: by mail-oi1-f174.google.com with SMTP id q186so13961757oig.12 for <9front@9front.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:00:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WpdeXotYvd/T8PBOEVnZZuepL/La3hHa16fTs0+8EQE=; b=RHadX0H8PS9TW70H4stiaEO1SVhh+/Lj6RzmTAFS/6cByAaCd13AH9QLhmUEDwSdEf 0rwjPC6SOOZDjTPQlKZ0gktiXq6Js1AUxPh8eUFODELrGjwEL2ARbSaejIAL8cpU7d3A h7C3stfQLHwnaKTjIUjXP5QUFWpeTur3bQ/WipLoVQ58MZwTXt0x/Xwq0siOKGF3RjUZ bWR47twUfnnsEIGc/Mnhm+9S45dGsWnEhPbM+yXSRTuF2TAZvNffvrn0yCOjUPpArhUv +h2UiLLpSISs2EuUJ8v3ylsUdzwzXGygPRY4Bv07xAcAU6uFFHpy2Ekbm/oE6HK19Bis 8W1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WpdeXotYvd/T8PBOEVnZZuepL/La3hHa16fTs0+8EQE=; b=sCqfMqi11I5yafnEHgw9fSz5u00gje/joAln5bnS6tRUk1WqzUDPqiyZh2XF7oN/O6 Oq/pYPy6etgE7tUo/1dFV7cNH9po3zHfZkzGlIFBcR0rcO5LhKXn10Q5FnaAx8BQ8yAK 6cSQWPY57WfteQ9b+G1Ck65RopDYOa6C5H7yX8g0941YwK6YBEVZ4WpLD/DWxSfSG20b wmibBRh+K7VbbTSsNoZfM+Vfg8HNxS6gREaaeuwyatASdbF3iReTkBA/vtAc4aKy/X90 /dXJ9p9+eWTnjLVvQIXZWcwuRR9tS1mA/mrvUV9uHchzYxw57IouPClKzX70GelmitFf P/CA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533rZx7CxjFaPy+4tTYcELHpgECYvWl1QxPWhZ/FyrSBNDZtkqtQ iNgD7CAttbaz3Htn9yIIl3WeCuxPizEuzfwOZ+RJqfMkpruILA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx84wuEABquerlpUUawLwKCn+/POA3FBW3AGUA+lZ/cgduXQ3CaPGu+XEGWqR21VcjE2L9oIcg4vb0PW7/xnsE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:744:: with SMTP id 65mr15506901oih.153.1614002427118; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:00:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6639829C-9DCE-4620-A9E7-82995764E64C@gmail.com> <867dn461xb.fsf@cmarib.ramside> <888eed48-c100-4002-a3e1-699a06d8ad0e@sirjofri.de> <867dn3v67n.fsf@cmarib.ramside> <959b7519-de53-43c9-b8a3-3b79f7fff02f@sirjofri.de> In-Reply-To: <959b7519-de53-43c9-b8a3-3b79f7fff02f@sirjofri.de> From: Marshall Conover Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 09:00:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9front@9front.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: realtime service-scale core interface Subject: Re: [9front] Re: Troff ms srefs, weird commata Reply-To: 9front@9front.org Precedence: bulk That's fine, it's not a grammar thing but a style thing, like Egyptian brackets. In this case you're using "British style" instead of "American style." > The above examples also show that the American style places commas and periods inside the quotation marks, even if they are not in the original material. British style (more sensibly) places unquoted periods and commas outside the quotation marks. For all other punctuation, the British and American styles are in agreement: unless the punctuation is part of the quoted material, it goes outside the quotation marks. From thepunctuationguide.com/british-versus-american-style.html As someone who grew up in the US and was a weirdo trained with Strunk and White/the AP style guide it'll look odd to me, but I think most people won't blink, and I certainly don't think it requires changing in your thesis, unless someone explicitly yells at you for it. On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 2:36 AM sirjofri w= rote: > > > 20.02.2021 03:11:24 magma698hfsp273p9f@icebubble.org: > > sirjofri writes: > >> It makes sense to follow the same rules in quoting. In German we have > >> this: use the punctuation from the quote (eg. "Some text," or "some > >> text?"), if there is none and you need it, place it outside (eg. "Some > >> text", or "some text"?). > > > > That WOULD make more sense, but that's not how we do it in English. :( > > Man, this is complex. > > >> In the footnotes the title doesn't end with punctuation, so in German > >> it would be "Title", almost always (except the title ends with > >> something, then it would also contain it: "title?", bla). > > > > You misunderstundhtme. I think you're confusing footnotes with > > endnotes/bibliography. When you typeset a footnote, it should come > > after any adjacent punctuation, including quotation marks, like this: > > Yeah, I'm talking about the references themselves, so what's in the > footnotes. I rarely use direct quotes anyway. > > In German it would be: > > > Sirjofri says, "The worst language is English."[1] > > Sirjofri sagt: =E2=80=9EDie schlimmste Sprache ist Englisch.=E2=80=9C[1= ] > > (The quote includes the punctuation.) > > > as opposed to this: > > > > Sirjofri asks, "Is the best language Lojban[2]?" > > Sirjofri fragt: =E2=80=9EIst die beste Sprache Lojban?=E2=80=9C[2] > > > or, worse yet, this: > > > > Did Sirjofri just say, "Toki Pona[3]"? > > Hat Sirjofri eben gesagt, =E2=80=9EToki Pona=E2=80=9C[3]? > > We rarely do endnotes in German, but footnotes instead, and using > superscript markers is more common than brackets. Btw these examples are > different when citing indirectly: > > Hat Sirjofri eben gesagt, Englisch sei schwer?[4] > > (No quotes, footnote marker always behind the sentence or passage.) > > My original question only is about the quoted title in the footnotes and > bibliography, which is always printed as: > > [5] Authors, =E2=80=9DTitle,=E2=80=9C Journal, Date, .... > > To my German eyes this looks like the title contains the comma in the > original source and there's no distinction between title and journal. It > just looks very wrong. > > Today I have to send in my thesis, with the adjustment I made (=E2=80=9Dt= itle=E2=80=9C, > journal). If that's wrong in English I should change it again. > > sirjofri --=20 Have a good day, Marshall Conover