[9front] removing python

[9front] removing python

[ori]

Hi,

Python (and hg) are gone. If you still use mercurial,
I've put up a repo with the last version that was
committed,  which we'll be keeping around for the
time being.

	git://git.9front.org/plan9front/pyhg

Re: [9front] removing python

[Stephen M. Jones]

> On Jun 13, 2021, at 5:09 PM, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Python (and hg) are gone. If you still use mercurial,
> I've put up a repo with the last version that was
> committed,  which we'll be keeping around for the
> time being.
> 
> 	git://git.9front.org/plan9front/pyhg
> 
> 

unsubscribe

Just kidding, this is fricken awesome!  Congrats on this huge step forward!

SMJ

Re: [9front] removing python

[Stanley Lieber]

On June 13, 2021 8:09:50 PM EDT, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Python (and hg) are gone. If you still use mercurial,
>I've put up a repo with the last version that was
>committed,  which we'll be keeping around for the
>time being.
>
>	git://git.9front.org/plan9front/pyhg
>
>
>

; ./install.rc                                     
bind: /sys/src/cmd/python: '/sys/src/cmd
python' does not exist

sl

Re: [9front] removing python

[ori]

Quoth Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
> On June 13, 2021 8:09:50 PM EDT, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >Python (and hg) are gone. If you still use mercurial,
> >I've put up a repo with the last version that was
> >committed,  which we'll be keeping around for the
> >time being.
> >
> >	git://git.9front.org/plan9front/pyhg
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ; ./install.rc                                     
> bind: /sys/src/cmd/python: '/sys/src/cmd
> python' does not exist
> 
> sl
> 

Oops. yeah. I tested it before I nuked the system
python. Give it a shot now.

Re: [9front] removing python

[Stanley Lieber]

On June 13, 2021 9:52:47 PM EDT, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
>Quoth Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
>> On June 13, 2021 8:09:50 PM EDT, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >Python (and hg) are gone. If you still use mercurial,
>> >I've put up a repo with the last version that was
>> >committed,  which we'll be keeping around for the
>> >time being.
>> >
>> >	git://git.9front.org/plan9front/pyhg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> ; ./install.rc                                     
>> bind: /sys/src/cmd/python: '/sys/src/cmd
>> python' does not exist
>> 
>> sl
>> 
>
>Oops. yeah. I tested it before I nuked the system
>python. Give it a shot now.
>

works now, thanks!

sl

Re: [9front] removing python

[Alexander McLin]

I probably missed the memo but what’s the back story behind removing
Python and migrating away from hg?

I’m a newcomer so I don’t yet know what’s problematic about using hg
or Python on Plan9.

Alex

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 6:14 AM Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com> wrote:
>
> On June 13, 2021 9:52:47 PM EDT, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> >Quoth Stanley Lieber <sl@stanleylieber.com>:
> >> On June 13, 2021 8:09:50 PM EDT, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> >> >Hi,
> >> >
> >> >Python (and hg) are gone. If you still use mercurial,
> >> >I've put up a repo with the last version that was
> >> >committed,  which we'll be keeping around for the
> >> >time being.
> >> >
> >> >    git://git.9front.org/plan9front/pyhg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> ; ./install.rc
> >> bind: /sys/src/cmd/python: '/sys/src/cmd
> >> python' does not exist
> >>
> >> sl
> >>
> >
> >Oops. yeah. I tested it before I nuked the system
> >python. Give it a shot now.
> >
>
> works now, thanks!
>
> sl

Re: [9front] removing python

[Alex Musolino]

> I probably missed the memo but what’s the back story behind removing
> Python and migrating away from hg?
> 
> I’m a newcomer so I don’t yet know what’s problematic about using hg
> or Python on Plan9.

9front ships an ancient version of python purely to support hg.  It's
big and it's slow.  A pile of non-plan9 code that can now be done
without.

I don't know that there was any real desire to move away from hg as
the repo format, per se, but Ori wrote git9, not hg9.

Re: [9front] removing python

[ori]

Quoth Alexander McLin <alex.mclin@gmail.com>:
> I probably missed the memo but what’s the back story behind removing
> Python and migrating away from hg?
> 
> I’m a newcomer so I don’t yet know what’s problematic about using hg
> or Python on Plan9.

It was on the order of a million lines of
code. The python version was from 2007,
and the hg version was from 2009. And while
the hg protocol is sufficiently compatible,
modern python code won't run oun our python.
It's dead weight to support hg, and nothing
else.

Contrast: Our implementation of git is 8784
lines of code (at the moment), and doesn't
have any external dependencies that we need
to fight.

And it means we're hosting git on plan9,
instead of on hg on unix.

Re: [9front] removing python

[Daniel C.]

Em 14/06/2021 13:34, ori@eigenstate.org escreveu:
> It was on the order of a million lines of
> code. The python version was from 2007,
> and the hg version was from 2009.
> [...]
> Contrast: Our implementation of git is 8784
> lines of code (at the moment), and doesn't
> have any external dependencies that we need
> to fight.
> 

Wow, the contrast is astonishing, congratulations and thank you for your 
work. That sounds like a major milestone.

The size of the git implementation seems so small (maybe misleadingly 
so?) that it makes me curious, because it's been a while since I first 
heard that you were working on git9. Why did it took so long, was it 
merely because you didn't have much free time? Or was it hard to 
understand git? Sometimes when migrating something, I see that I spend 
more time understanding the old system than writing the new one. Was 
that the case? What was the harder aspects in this implementation? 
Because a superficial look would suggest that with the new 
implementation being so short, it should not have taken so long. I'm 
sure it would be naive to think this way. Knowing that often making 
something simple and clear takes a lot more effort than producing 
something complicated, I would be grateful for any insight you want to 
share on the history behind the scenes for this transition. Thanks!

Re: [9front] removing python

[ori]

Quoth Daniel C. <bigatojj@gmail.com>:
> The size of the git implementation seems so small (maybe misleadingly 
> so?) that it makes me curious, because it's been a while since I first 
> heard that you were working on git9. Why did it took so long, was it 
> merely because you didn't have much free time? Or was it hard to 
> understand git?

It's been usable enough to host its own development for
almost two years (the first import from hg was Jun 28 2019,
and every commit since the conversion has been done with
git9, for the sake of dogfooding and bragging rights).

But it takes experience with the program to find the rough
edges, poor design decisions, and bugs. And hg was working
well enough, so there was no pressure to rush a conversion,
and good reason to do it when things felt smooth, and all
the features and ui that we cared about felt reasonably
polished.

And, yes, it takes time for me to think about how to write
simple and clean implementations of algorithms without a
ton of special cases.