From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <9front-bounces@9front.inri.net> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from 9front.inri.net (9front.inri.net [168.235.81.73]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4343A216DC for ; Tue, 7 May 2024 23:14:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dog.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.48]) by 9front; Tue May 7 17:12:09 -0400 2024 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|lists@ecloud.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF5C842D5B for <9front@9front.org>; Tue, 7 May 2024 21:12:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a212.dreamhost.com (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 65922841036 for <9front@9front.org>; Tue, 7 May 2024 21:12:02 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1715116322; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=u1pkect4cnHBBPt7GYJW3u+AU3tNO+zieagnWpXc/X2wVKYnYC2KSdjo0Qe5nBKVLLutdG WYJsnjG5Bru2porIVx5x2m3aZqvob7JFShwMXUwoAuU0stiVjtX7adlTuj6/z7UXGzInxo UjTsUK795rsSge4LLAprajBwZCH44040hnKeMI6A3pQxfobkrpVRUWk+IOC7+ov7eGstfO 6I2T1+7kRuane7sstd4pWt77g5EebyBgIgEMZnp30NAfRCb0K4nium8S6i1SYezMkMhD8D IR4bmNBBE9UfKHY/cPFc4gwHJ6EzJvT9x5aJfg9kIC6Z/CFzSOmU/rFvCClK3w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1715116322; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=bMxHAnTCs2FW0WJgOwqLJHiPQGik8z0xUTxNFqSE3HU=; b=yGBielA1sFYnoxv1qB6dqiGOjX3cP/4YlOOO9JgeBsJnq7dV2Kh+eW3yAI7nozXtYZtP0u LftQwQD1LYiZZ+xUEA7bfoIt70l1dsBTeMpPD/jSHAwmjNvV3/td0+foLOnCNZk4e7jJ3Y Et8uG7Cfb6gvwVFhCemA/WXU2j6ZQFGJKJHH9kAc124d29HVoYvaOz1mqsgIKHszUzAULS GgZ3CJcUqirxZObDDtsAqf7JimMUQaWL8Vd0DuZNu54sEbII6myJk+8asiWwpAeujtBixB wGN4L/8+tAew4p1Y8cVhX2Z3ZyeUpW9Z8Jt5/5bFHPkM6CObN+2L5xHWYdD4Ww== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-5d55749bb4-kg2vx; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=lists@ecloud.org X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|lists@ecloud.org X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|lists@ecloud.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Plucky-Wiry: 4e28590632f6e625_1715116322800_1857101755 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1715116322800:4007608390 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1715116322800 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a212.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.116.74.114 (trex/6.9.2); Tue, 07 May 2024 21:12:02 +0000 Received: from smtpclient.apple (154.sub-75-233-59.myvzw.com [75.233.59.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: lists@ecloud.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a212.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4VYrZB1KLDzBF for <9front@9front.org>; Tue, 7 May 2024 14:12:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ecloud.org; s=dreamhost; t=1715116322; bh=bMxHAnTCs2FW0WJgOwqLJHiPQGik8z0xUTxNFqSE3HU=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Date:To; b=PgzLtRI5wnxb0jUleX21syyzlYawmjOqjDy5mHhd81+Y14CGuukKYYea4lz8AUbSe Y+kMCUHVIQmUvShPIp8Nron0vkh6oLrYxWPCAPLSbkEoEbHUJx8w1Irz+Enxyi/Bht IFeq3Z8NXI5iq63zBsFaX9yW9Ej06gAnpA3UH9tWiYvxMcFJGrNSNE+UEkMOsLrw7G 6TwW6LMpNUA/3vM+mF4O5G8I1/EoZhFyGn+jtGmJx2R5/hEq1ooNDPRydSMrvjoNZo Y17rKZl1QD7iKSdSaPNgQ97ib3kVdoeQIjz4mBT9QSPdKm7PwpAfaChVnWKxas4wmr 2XOfuYo8eJu8A== From: Shawn Rutledge Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.500.171.1.1\)) Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 14:11:50 -0700 References: <4azdxd3t3x3whti6dlyfn75pl4wzodvs3gzsbu5t7xcnqmnuuc@kxfwuan7u5mw> To: 9front@9front.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.500.171.1.1) List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: browser-based enhancement-scale layer Subject: Re: [9front] Enabling a service Reply-To: 9front@9front.org Precedence: bulk On May 7, 2024, at 2:14=E2=80=AFAM, sirjofri = wrote: > In the other case, where you want your machine to always serve = services, that machine is most probably a cpu by definition. Nowadays = there's no reason to not run a cpu if you need services. In the = beginning there were different kernels if I remember correctly, which = meant a big difference, but nowadays it's only a different = configuration. I just don=E2=80=99t see much point in keeping it as split as it still = is. For some reason a 9front install is a term by default, and not = being set up to run services by default seems like a needless = limitation. But if you switch to cpu, it=E2=80=99s a little extra work = to get it to be a useful machine to sit in front of (even though =E2=80=9C= text mode=E2=80=9D is already graphical), which is also a needless = limitation. It took me a few hours to learn how to customize the = startup process at first, and I didn=E2=80=99t memorize it, so next time = I=E2=80=99d have to look at the machines on which I already did it to = remember what exactly I did. When a newbie starts with one machine and = then wants to try starting up network services shortly afterwards, it = should be more directly possible, IMO; and the directory-of-services = approach seems like a good one to me, which should not be ruled out by = having a term by default. Unless you are actually in a lab environment = with shared machines, nobody expects a diskless terminal anymore; and = it=E2=80=99s not a great introduction to what Plan 9 can do, to have = that be the default. If the majority thinks there needs to continue to be a distinction = though, then maybe the installer should ask about the machine=E2=80=99s = intended role at installation time, and try to achieve a suitable = out-of-the-box experience for all the choices.