[9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[Anders Damsgaard]

Dear all,

Running awk from rc, I found that I need to quote the arguments to awk's
-v option, as in:

	awk -v 'myvar=asdf' 'BEGIN{print myvar}'

However, the awk man page specifies this without quotes as "awk -v
myvar=asdf".  I now realize that it will not work without quotes because
rc tries to interpret the assignment operator.

Is this just a beginner mistake, being used to unix behavior, or worth
documenting as in the patch below?

Thanks, Anders


diff ff2ebe6cfdacd890a74a6d2f9b0acd062d2633b7 uncommitted
--- a/sys/man/1/awk
+++ b/sys/man/1/awk
@@ -23,7 +23,7 @@
  ]
  [
  .B -v
-.I var=value
+.I 'var=value'
  ]
  [
  .B -f
@@ -58,13 +58,13 @@
  Any
  .IR file
  of the form
-.I var=value
+.I 'var=value'
  is treated as an assignment, not a file name,
  and is executed at the time it would have been opened if it were a file name.
  The option
  .B -v
  followed by
-.I var=value
+.I 'var=value'
  is an assignment to be done before the program
  is executed;
  any number of

Re: [9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[qwx]

On Tue Nov 29 13:11:23 +0100 2022, anders@adamsgaard.dk wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> Running awk from rc, I found that I need to quote the arguments to awk's
> -v option, as in:
> 
> 	awk -v 'myvar=asdf' 'BEGIN{print myvar}'
> 
> However, the awk man page specifies this without quotes as "awk -v
> myvar=asdf".  I now realize that it will not work without quotes because
> rc tries to interpret the assignment operator.
> 
> Is this just a beginner mistake, being used to unix behavior, or worth
> documenting as in the patch below?
> 
> Thanks, Anders

Hi,

awk(1)'s manpage seems mostly unchanged from unix.  I'm not sure it
makes sense to add quotes there since it's an rc specificity, not awk.
Perhaps a sentence could be added in the BUGS section?  Just my 2c.

Thanks!
qwx

Re: [9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[Stanley Lieber]

this is an rc quirk, not related to awk. for example, what if you run awk from the ape/sh (or some other) shell?

on the other hand, obviously in almost every case the user will be launching awk from rc.

still, i do not think we need to document rc quoting behavior in every man page because ultimately the man page is for the program in question, while rc quoting is something a 9front user will have to come to terms with early in their career as a 9front.

in summary, rc’s quoting is not a universal condition, so it should remain implied rather than explicit in man pages that are not the rc man page.

sl

> On Nov 29, 2022, at 7:11 AM, Anders Damsgaard <anders@adamsgaard.dk> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> Running awk from rc, I found that I need to quote the arguments to awk's
> -v option, as in:
> 
>    awk -v 'myvar=asdf' 'BEGIN{print myvar}'
> 
> However, the awk man page specifies this without quotes as "awk -v
> myvar=asdf".  I now realize that it will not work without quotes because
> rc tries to interpret the assignment operator.
> 
> Is this just a beginner mistake, being used to unix behavior, or worth
> documenting as in the patch below?
> 
> Thanks, Anders
> 
> 
> diff ff2ebe6cfdacd890a74a6d2f9b0acd062d2633b7 uncommitted
> --- a/sys/man/1/awk
> +++ b/sys/man/1/awk
> @@ -23,7 +23,7 @@
> ]
> [
> .B -v
> -.I var=value
> +.I 'var=value'
> ]
> [
> .B -f
> @@ -58,13 +58,13 @@
> Any
> .IR file
> of the form
> -.I var=value
> +.I 'var=value'
> is treated as an assignment, not a file name,
> and is executed at the time it would have been opened if it were a file name.
> The option
> .B -v
> followed by
> -.I var=value
> +.I 'var=value'
> is an assignment to be done before the program
> is executed;
> any number of
> 

Re: [9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[Kurt H Maier]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 01:10:26PM +0100, Anders Damsgaard wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> Running awk from rc, I found that I need to quote the arguments to awk's
> -v option, as in:
> 
> 	awk -v 'myvar=asdf' 'BEGIN{print myvar}'
> 
> However, the awk man page specifies this without quotes as "awk -v
> myvar=asdf".  I now realize that it will not work without quotes because
> rc tries to interpret the assignment operator.
> 
> Is this just a beginner mistake, being used to unix behavior, or worth
> documenting as in the patch below?
> 
> Thanks, Anders

I guess I'll be that guy again

I know that the quoting quirk is a characteristic of rc and not whatever
other environment one might conceivably use to launch awk.  I get that
under most unix shells this is a non-issue.  However, the quoted variant
also works fine in e.g. bash and ksh and so forth.  It's all the same to
awk.

I submit as my actual argument that having documentation containing
examples which, when copied and pasted into the primary UI of the
project, do not work, is bad form.  People read man pages to learn how
to use shit, not to get a sense of the general aesthetic of a given
command were we to run it on v7 Unix.  The shit we say should work
should work.  

I vote the patch goes in.

khm

Re: [9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[Stanley Lieber]

On Nov 29, 2022, at 10:17 AM, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
> 
> I submit as my actual argument that having documentation containing
> examples which, when copied and pasted into the primary UI of the
> project, do not work, is bad form.  People read man pages to learn how
> to use shit, not to get a sense of the general aesthetic of a given
> command were we to run it on v7 Unix.  The shit we say should work
> should work.  

the fact that both examples do indeed work in all known environments is an important point, and i agree with the above as well.

i rescind my objection.

sl

Re: [9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir]

Quoth Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 01:10:26PM +0100, Anders Damsgaard wrote:
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > Running awk from rc, I found that I need to quote the arguments to awk's
> > -v option, as in:
> > 
> > 	awk -v 'myvar=asdf' 'BEGIN{print myvar}'
> > 
> > However, the awk man page specifies this without quotes as "awk -v
> > myvar=asdf".  I now realize that it will not work without quotes because
> > rc tries to interpret the assignment operator.
> > 
> > Is this just a beginner mistake, being used to unix behavior, or worth
> > documenting as in the patch below?
> > 
> > Thanks, Anders
> 
> I guess I'll be that guy again
> 
> I know that the quoting quirk is a characteristic of rc and not whatever
> other environment one might conceivably use to launch awk.  I get that
> under most unix shells this is a non-issue.  However, the quoted variant
> also works fine in e.g. bash and ksh and so forth.  It's all the same to
> awk.
> 
> I submit as my actual argument that having documentation containing
> examples which, when copied and pasted into the primary UI of the
> project, do not work, is bad form.  People read man pages to learn how
> to use shit, not to get a sense of the general aesthetic of a given
> command were we to run it on v7 Unix.  The shit we say should work
> should work.  
> 
> I vote the patch goes in.
> 
> khm

Wasn't there a patch somewhere for Plan 9 Port(??) that made the
quoting a bit more relaxed when NOT specifying env vars?  I'd be more
inclined to accept non-quoted variant in parameters.  Having to quote
those is annoying, I want the computer to figure out what I'm doing,
not to baby-sit rc.

Re: [9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[Jacob Moody]

On 11/29/22 09:24, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir wrote:
> Quoth Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 01:10:26PM +0100, Anders Damsgaard wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Running awk from rc, I found that I need to quote the arguments to awk's
>>> -v option, as in:
>>>
>>> 	awk -v 'myvar=asdf' 'BEGIN{print myvar}'
>>>
>>> However, the awk man page specifies this without quotes as "awk -v
>>> myvar=asdf".  I now realize that it will not work without quotes because
>>> rc tries to interpret the assignment operator.
>>>
>>> Is this just a beginner mistake, being used to unix behavior, or worth
>>> documenting as in the patch below?
>>>
>>> Thanks, Anders
>>
>> I guess I'll be that guy again
>>
>> I know that the quoting quirk is a characteristic of rc and not whatever
>> other environment one might conceivably use to launch awk.  I get that
>> under most unix shells this is a non-issue.  However, the quoted variant
>> also works fine in e.g. bash and ksh and so forth.  It's all the same to
>> awk.
>>
>> I submit as my actual argument that having documentation containing
>> examples which, when copied and pasted into the primary UI of the
>> project, do not work, is bad form.  People read man pages to learn how
>> to use shit, not to get a sense of the general aesthetic of a given
>> command were we to run it on v7 Unix.  The shit we say should work
>> should work.  
>>
>> I vote the patch goes in.
>>
>> khm
> 
> Wasn't there a patch somewhere for Plan 9 Port(??) that made the
> quoting a bit more relaxed when NOT specifying env vars?  I'd be more
> inclined to accept non-quoted variant in parameters.  Having to quote
> those is annoying, I want the computer to figure out what I'm doing,
> not to baby-sit rc.
> 


That there was, I believe it came with the work that was done in rewriting
the parser away from yacc. I would second this change.

Re: [9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[Kurt H Maier]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 09:28:04AM -0700, Jacob Moody wrote:
> On 11/29/22 09:24, Sigrid Solveig Hafl�nud�ttir wrote:
> > Quoth Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
> >> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 01:10:26PM +0100, Anders Damsgaard wrote:
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> Running awk from rc, I found that I need to quote the arguments to awk's
> >>> -v option, as in:
> >>>
> >>> 	awk -v 'myvar=asdf' 'BEGIN{print myvar}'
> >>>
> >>> However, the awk man page specifies this without quotes as "awk -v
> >>> myvar=asdf".  I now realize that it will not work without quotes because
> >>> rc tries to interpret the assignment operator.
> >>>
> >>> Is this just a beginner mistake, being used to unix behavior, or worth
> >>> documenting as in the patch below?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, Anders
> >>
> >> I guess I'll be that guy again
> >>
> >> I know that the quoting quirk is a characteristic of rc and not whatever
> >> other environment one might conceivably use to launch awk.  I get that
> >> under most unix shells this is a non-issue.  However, the quoted variant
> >> also works fine in e.g. bash and ksh and so forth.  It's all the same to
> >> awk.
> >>
> >> I submit as my actual argument that having documentation containing
> >> examples which, when copied and pasted into the primary UI of the
> >> project, do not work, is bad form.  People read man pages to learn how
> >> to use shit, not to get a sense of the general aesthetic of a given
> >> command were we to run it on v7 Unix.  The shit we say should work
> >> should work.  
> >>
> >> I vote the patch goes in.
> >>
> >> khm
> > 
> > Wasn't there a patch somewhere for Plan 9 Port(??) that made the
> > quoting a bit more relaxed when NOT specifying env vars?  I'd be more
> > inclined to accept non-quoted variant in parameters.  Having to quote
> > those is annoying, I want the computer to figure out what I'm doing,
> > not to baby-sit rc.
> > 
> 
> 
> That there was, I believe it came with the work that was done in rewriting
> the parser away from yacc. I would second this change.
> 

previously discussed in the thread 'new rc parser: do we want it?' in
this mailing list.

also related: https://www.mail-archive.com/9fans@9fans.net/msg36493.html

khm

Re: [9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[Stanley Lieber]

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> 

Re: [9front] [PATCH] awk(1): quote argument for -v option

[Stanley Lieber]

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i just realized my last post may have come off as some kind of “don’t touch the artwork” statement, which was not my intention. i happen to be standing in a museum with several pieces of auk artwork right in front of me, and enjoyed the synchronicity.

sl


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