* [9front] SQL @ 2021-01-11 3:20 William Gunnells 2021-01-11 3:56 ` p. j. 2021-01-11 4:07 ` Kurt H Maier 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: William Gunnells @ 2021-01-11 3:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front Okay so plan9 does not have DB because...well it's a file based system. Okay okay so how would you manage large data. grep would suck. I guess sqlite would work but is that even ported. I read somewhere about using: https://github.com/harelba/q/ I don't know about that. I don't have a practical use as of yet. Just curious. It seems like a challenge to build some sort of http server in plan9 with basic webauth capability and store data in a file. What's the file size limitation? 9front has a list server. I'm sure that data is pretty extensive but those pages are not being served. Thoughts? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] SQL 2021-01-11 3:20 [9front] SQL William Gunnells @ 2021-01-11 3:56 ` p. j. 2021-01-11 4:07 ` Kurt H Maier 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: p. j. @ 2021-01-11 3:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front something like q or k would be interesting. if someone was looking to port it, i would recommend ngn's implementation and the clarity and serenity of mind to work with whitney-style c: https://git.sr.ht/~ngn/k/ On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:52 PM William Gunnells <thinktankworkspaces@gmail.com> wrote: > > Okay so plan9 does not have DB because...well it's a file based > system. Okay okay so how would you manage large data. grep would suck. > I guess sqlite would work but is that even ported. I read somewhere > about using: https://github.com/harelba/q/ I don't know about that. I > don't have a practical use as of yet. Just curious. It seems like a > challenge to build some sort of http server in plan9 with basic > webauth capability and store data in a file. What's the file size > limitation? 9front has a list server. I'm sure that data is pretty > extensive but those pages are not being served. Thoughts? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] SQL 2021-01-11 3:20 [9front] SQL William Gunnells 2021-01-11 3:56 ` p. j. @ 2021-01-11 4:07 ` Kurt H Maier 2021-01-11 8:01 ` Steve Simon 2021-01-11 15:36 ` ori 1 sibling, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Kurt H Maier @ 2021-01-11 4:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 07:20:27PM -0800, William Gunnells wrote: > Okay so plan9 does not have DB because...well it's a file based > system. Okay okay so how would you manage large data. grep would suck. > I guess sqlite would work but is that even ported. I read somewhere > about using: https://github.com/harelba/q/ I don't know about that. I > don't have a practical use as of yet. Just curious. It seems like a > challenge to build some sort of http server in plan9 with basic > webauth capability and store data in a file. What's the file size > limitation? 9front has a list server. I'm sure that data is pretty > extensive but those pages are not being served. Thoughts? Plan 9 has databases. One example is ndb. Another is kenji's desktop search system, kirara. Your question conflates the concept of a database with the access mechanism. SQL is a query language. The reason it's not got much traction on Plan 9 is that most SQL engines are closely tuned to their host environment in order to stanch the bleeding on the traumatic performance hit taken when you wind up using a data access language that doesn't map well to the actual storage primitives your operating system provides. ndb declares relationships in terms of tuples, which are just collections of key-value pairs. Kirara works more like an indexing system that stores points from a given string to the file that contains it. Neither of these approaches require the massive amount of effort that would be required to write a performant SQL engine that doesn't corrupt your data along the way. On Plan 9, people tend to think about what data they're trying to access, and create data structures that make it easy to do the task your program is trying to accomplish. I don't know why you think making a web server would be such a challenge, since eekee has provided a pretty good one written in shell script (rc-httpd). It includes HTTP Basic Auth, but works just as well without it (for example, werc can handle its own user authentication). I suppose the inevitable question is "what exactly are you trying to accomplish?" If the answer is "I'm not sure yet," then SQL in front of a relational database might seem like a good idea. But there's nothing innate about tables and rows that can't be done with regular files and indexes and shit. In fact, that's what the RDBMSes are doing behind the scenes anyway, unless they're backed by object storage, in which case they've delegated to the object store. At some point, on systems like Unix and Plan 9, you have to open/read/write/close just like everyone else. You just have to decide how tall you want to build your sandcastle of abstractions in the process. khM ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] SQL 2021-01-11 4:07 ` Kurt H Maier @ 2021-01-11 8:01 ` Steve Simon 2021-01-11 9:42 ` Jens Staal 2021-01-11 15:36 ` ori 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Steve Simon @ 2021-01-11 8:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front there is pq, a database used to serve the 0800 er database to phone operators at at&t i believe. -Steve ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] SQL 2021-01-11 8:01 ` Steve Simon @ 2021-01-11 9:42 ` Jens Staal 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Jens Staal @ 2021-01-11 9:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 08:01:56AM +0000, Steve Simon wrote: > > there is pq, a database used to serve the 0800 er database to phone operators at at&t i believe. > > -Steve > I think there used to be a sqlite clone in /n/contrib https://plan9.io/sources/contrib/fgb/replica/sqlite3/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] SQL 2021-01-11 4:07 ` Kurt H Maier 2021-01-11 8:01 ` Steve Simon @ 2021-01-11 15:36 ` ori 2021-01-11 16:58 ` Kurt H Maier 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: ori @ 2021-01-11 15:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front Quoth Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>: > > Plan 9 has databases. One example is ndb. Another is kenji's desktop > search system, kirara. don't forget databases like cwfs or hjfs. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9front] SQL 2021-01-11 15:36 ` ori @ 2021-01-11 16:58 ` Kurt H Maier 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Kurt H Maier @ 2021-01-11 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9front On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 07:36:52AM -0800, ori@eigenstate.org wrote: > Quoth Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>: > > > > Plan 9 has databases. One example is ndb. Another is kenji's desktop > > search system, kirara. > > don't forget databases like cwfs or hjfs. Absolutely right. I forgot to state my assumptions. khm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-01-11 17:28 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2021-01-11 3:20 [9front] SQL William Gunnells 2021-01-11 3:56 ` p. j. 2021-01-11 4:07 ` Kurt H Maier 2021-01-11 8:01 ` Steve Simon 2021-01-11 9:42 ` Jens Staal 2021-01-11 15:36 ` ori 2021-01-11 16:58 ` Kurt H Maier
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