From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12472 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2022 14:44:37 -0000 Received: from 9front.inri.net (168.235.81.73) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 29 Nov 2022 14:44:37 -0000 Received: from wopr.sciops.net ([216.126.196.60]) by 9front; Tue Nov 29 09:42:52 -0500 2022 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sciops.net; s=20210706; t=1669732957; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=5PquCzIePHaI+4toXZm7NGOQVk7lm2X7wRgFnP4kj9M=; b=AvJz0shqRhxhGW0JgWribj7O4sWHH8dnvtazmksUQWGKjWjsHUKlhiJPDVzUiktu0AnvcC Sl+ZtyQf9MVoCSjKBz4B+fDsWmagodSTzKvvzEYjHNyUWw7sZro2xjy+UwRFTXrSOOkBZO e/yP/BWDE1HVTJHiZdwjHfnvN8z4J6g= Received: from localhost (wopr.sciops.net [local]) by wopr.sciops.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 26680e51 for <9front@9front.org>; Tue, 29 Nov 2022 06:42:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 06:42:37 -0800 From: Kurt H Maier To: 9front@9front.org Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: 9front@9front.org References: <51022878-2dcf-42be-9990-60f2d1475ce5@sirjofri.de> <0df780bc-37c8-4f01-8c40-aa50e83d0573@sirjofri.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: lossless virtualized singleton-scale hosting-oriented general-purpose-aware locator Subject: Re: [9front] 9front on the Allwinner A64 Reply-To: 9front@9front.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 09:04:01AM +0100, sirjofri wrote: > Hello, > > I think you guys don't fully understand what I plan to do, UI-wise. > > I want a pure Plan 9 phone. This doesn't mean I want an adjusted rio and a way to do mouse clicks to fulfill the expectations of what Plan 9 intended for a desktop UI with a mouse and keyboard. > > This means, I want to design a fully new UI system that matches the philosophical expectation of "Plan 9", whatever this means. It's not a definitive concept yet, although I have a few ideas that I want to test out (and bitsy/keyboard will be used as a starter). > > The goal is to have a Plan 9 device that really feels like a Plan 9 phone, but with a natural way to interact with the system. > > Of course I could just copy smartphone UI stuff from Android (or iOS), but you'll soon feel that it's not a Plan 9 system at all. It'd merely be a "modern" UI with a Plan 9 kernel under the hood, much like you don't feel a linux under Android although it is there. > > I want the system to be so Plan 9-ey that you can feel Plan 9 each time you use it. I want the system to be fun in a way that you _want_ to use it. I want the system to be productive so that you _can_ use it. And finally (maybe not finally) I want the system so that you can use it within your bigger context of a Plan 9 grid[1]. > > It should feel natural to interact with existing backend system components like the plumber. In fact, Android has a similar system with its intents, but I can't just copy that and make it work with plumber; it would never feel right. I have to go back to the roots of Plan 9 UI development and design a new system from the ground up, that feels as natural as clicking with a mouse inside acme or using the context menu to send data to the plumber. > > I know this is a big challenge and is definitely worth a paper. I wish I had more time to prepare design documentation and concept descriptions for you. The good thing is, I can very likely start developing (and testing, to some extent) on a Plan 9 system on a computer. > > sirjofri > > > [1] This means, you can naturally access your phone from any grid device et vice versa. So you can basically rcpu into your phone and do phone calls. Yes, this is what the hellaphone project was, but with inferno. The Android pieces were basically hardware enablement and inferno tied into things like audioflinger. There was no android UI left running. You instead had a filesystem-based interface to the phone radio etc, with some basic touch-oriented UI served on top. It was a similar approach to Mer's libhybris effort but with inferno doing plan-9-style things instead of lumping more linux on top. I suggest you look at what hellphone did before dismissing it entirely. I also suggest that before you start developing anything you come to some kind of definition of what Plan 9 "feels like." Good luck, khm