From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 29868 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2022 00:06:41 -0000 Received: from 9front.inri.net (168.235.81.73) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Aug 2022 00:06:41 -0000 Received: from wopr.sciops.net ([216.126.196.60]) by 9front; Thu Aug 18 20:03:41 -0400 2022 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sciops.net; s=20210706; t=1660867355; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=BY8/Pm1fylzIsGZ9rruFve0gSQJ6ZPXYzFGNaINic/U=; b=JAsDGbPOnPNHzVH40VHV4ntawlUspS6mfSjR5JW2Z9cmnCAuE7wo4y2gQnBc5/N/bOfnWe 7jkxF0x2IpoZOD9Ppd+R50AMBYVn3J0SqP0ihb982lCNJDd3KadN5zDf3apAOR1bgyIBIS LapAvJZeP3nLAM3DxDcR3MmT6+DOrDk= Received: from localhost (wopr.sciops.net [local]) by wopr.sciops.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 844cb9b5 for <9front@9front.org>; Thu, 18 Aug 2022 17:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 17:02:35 -0700 From: Kurt H Maier To: 9front@9front.org Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: 9front@9front.org References: <0B86E12FBB1D4FAD7364472E28455060@eigenstate.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: List-ID: <9front.9front.org> List-Help: X-Glyph: ➈ X-Bullshit: compliant SQL session descriptor Subject: Re: [9front] hackathon writeup Reply-To: 9front@9front.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 12:37:04AM +0100, Stuart Morrow wrote: > And VMX doesn't run on my X301 even though virtualisation > exists on Core 2 Duo (and is/was enabled in the BIOS). VMX requires a Westmere or newer Intel processor. The earliest generation of Thinkpad X series laptop to support this is the X230, a machine otherwise roundly inferior to the X301. Core 2 Duo chips support the VT-d instructions but not EPT or unrestricted guests. > And people run 9front on hardware that doesn't have virtualisation > at all. With the possible exception of the Ryzen line, hardware too old to support virtualization is unlikely to run linuxemu at an acceptable speed. As for User-Mode Linux, it's single-cpu and doesn't support anything but x86-based processors either. (Sure, it works on Itanium and PowerPC, but 9front doesn't.) The syscalls problem isn't that we don't know which ones to implement, it's that Linux creates and deprecates them at a rate faster than anyone can keep up with. I am positive this is the case worldwide, not just for us -- otherwise, things like Docker on OS X would not virtualize an entire OS just to make use of Linux containers. The engineering cost to virtualize a platform and boot Linux on it is lower than the engineering cost to keep up with whatever the hell the Linux horde throws at the kernel this week. khm